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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#52101: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:31:44 PM

Some of them are dead, the rest formed some sort of revenge squad and started flirting with being villains.
That's kind of a simplification of things: Chase and Nico were kidnapped by Arcade and forced by be in his games (Avengers Arena) and afterwards, they went to Bagalia in order to get revenge on Arcade (Avengers Underground) where they were tempted to become villains, but didn't. Nico is currently on A-Force. Victor Mancha joined Avengers A.I. and then made an appearance in Ant-Man, while the rest appeared previously in Avengers Academy.

edited 25th Feb '16 1:33:06 PM by alliterator

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#52102: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:34:03 PM

ARENAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#52103: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:34:09 PM

For obvious reasons, I didn't care to keep up on exact details.

You also left out Mettle, Reptil, and Juston dying in Arena.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#52104: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:35:21 PM

I didn't realise there was a current masters of evil. When did they reform? What's the roster?

Everyone. They're an army of supervillains now. They even have their own country.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#52105: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:35:21 PM

You also left out Mettle, Reptil, and Juston dying in Arena.
They were never members of the Runaways. They were part of the Avengers Academy.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#52106: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:35:24 PM

Not really. Marvel just chooses to focus on the heroes first and foremost and on its villains second. It is actually an old Disney tradition (even though they already did it before they became part of Disney). I mean, who are the greatest Disney villains? Maleficent, Ursula, The Evil Queen, Scar, Frolo, Hook, Cruella De Ville? And what do we know about them? Nothing at all. They are nothing more than a great design, an understandable motivation and a great voice actor. That's it. You don't need more for a villain. And whoever came up with the idea that villains need a backstory is an idiot. Most villains are better the less we know about their past (cough Darth Vader cough). Sure you can do something different along the line of Loki - but you don't HAVE to. Villains like the Red Skull, Ronan or Ultron are exactly what they need to be.

Villains can work in a wide variety of ways.

Most of the Disney villains you listed are extremely entertaining, frightening and have a lot of stage presence. That's absolutely 100% functional and good, but unfortunately I feel that most Marvel villains often just barely have that going on their favor, they're merely functional but not exceptional and it does often end up making for a film that is not as good as it could be. The problem isn't that the villains don't work per se but that they aren't particularly exceptional either.

Focusing on the hero above all else isn't an inherently bad approach but has netted mix results so far.

edited 25th Feb '16 1:36:47 PM by wehrmacht

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#52107: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:35:32 PM

Ah, I knew about Avengers Arena (because it was so damn controversial) I've never even heard of Avengers AI.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#52108: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:37:31 PM

They were never members of the Runaways. They were part of the Avengers Academy.

...Well then I apologize for how inaccurate I've been about this. Had I remembered I wouldn't have responded to Whowho the way I did.

edited 25th Feb '16 1:37:43 PM by VeryMelon

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#52109: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:37:59 PM

THE MASTERS OF EVIL NOW CONSIST OF EVERYONE AND THEY NOW OWN A COUNTRY.

LADY FUCKING STILTMAN WAS IN THAT PICTURE.

What book is this stuff happening in!?

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#52110: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:41:20 PM

I don't think they're in anything right now but they were a very big part of Secret Avengers and Avengers Undercover.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#52111: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:41:46 PM

@Comic Writer: I think nearly all of the Immortal Weapons are Asians, are they not? Fat Cobra, Dog Brother, Tiger's Beautiful Daughter, Bride of Nine Spiders (though that one's hard to tell because she barely looks human). The only weapons not asian are Iron Fist and Prince of Orphans, and even Prince of Orphans, due being shadowy as it gets, is hard to peg (he says his name is John Aman, but who's to say that isn't just one of his many names?).

I think Brubaker-Fraction-Duane (because his surname is way too hard to type) is the arc they'll try adapting. It's by far Iron Fist's best run, and no writer before or since has reached it. It's to Iron Fist what Frank Miller is to Daredevil. The villain (Steel Serpent) is also ripe for good writing potential (he's basically Tai Lung).

But if I had to guess, I think the first season will be about Orson and Iron Fist. It seems to early to play something as huge as the Seven Immortal Weapons in the first season. They're massive Ensemble Dark Horse, and really each of them could get their own spin-off (that Marvel is yet to do so is a disapointment of mine).

@Wack'd, I'd like to observe I agree with you. I'm not your enemy here. Please remain calm.

@Kostya: This is mostly what I mean. He can be of other ethnicties, I just think his arc of Culture Clash works better when he's primarily a Western person from New York, particularly due his strong connection to Harlem, for example.

EDIT: I'm going to stop having debates here. It moves waaay too fast to properly discuss anything at length.

edited 25th Feb '16 1:42:50 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#52112: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:45:48 PM

Its in an odd position where it has to tear down the rest of the marvel universe to boost itself up to a point where it gets annoying sometimes.

"Oh no a giant monster is destroying LA oh too bad the 'heroes' are all too busy with registration those piss babies. Even though its a magic giant monster and Dr Strange is uninvolved and should probably be taking care of this everybody else in the verse is a bunch of dumb babies with their costumes and codenames not like us cool young people"

But overall, if you ignore those swipes (like Captain America just throwing the kids in foster care and never checking back up on them?) it was pretty great.

Yeah, that bugged me a lot. The one that stood out to me was when they "disproved" Spider-Man's With Great Power thing by saying that great power doesn't come with great responsibility because people with power always misuse it, and so it falls to those with no power to keep everyone else in check.

In addition to the suggestion that people without power would even be able to keep those with power in check being nonsensical and asinine, it completely misinterprets the point of the With Great Power bit. It's not stating inherently that everyone with Great Power always uses the power responsibly. It's saying that Great Power should be utilized responsibly.

Or, in other words, this scene that was supposed to make Nico look badass by having her defeat Spider-Man in a philosophical argument comes off looking exactly like what it is: an arrogant teenager trying to talk smack at an experienced professional while having no idea what she's actually talking about, and horribly embarrassing herself in the process. It's just too bad that wasn't the intent.

edited 25th Feb '16 1:47:22 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#52113: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:47:48 PM

The only weapons not asian are Iron Fist and Prince of Orphans, and even Prince of Orphans, due being shadowy as it gets, is hard to peg (he says his name is John Aman, but who's to say that isn't just one of his many names?).
Prince of Orphans is actually the Marvel version of Amazing-Man, who actually influenced the creation of Iron Fist. And yes, he is white.

[up] I actually think that was the intent behind the scene, since Spider-Man was actually truly trying to help them and he came off as sympathetic (since he used to be a teen hero, too).

edited 25th Feb '16 1:48:45 PM by alliterator

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#52114: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:48:54 PM

@Wehrmacht Sure, but that is mostly because of either weaknesses in the overall script (Malekith and Whiplash is just one of a long list of problems in their respective movies). The movies do well enough though, overall. After all they gave us Loki and all the great Hydra villains. The TV shows are doing GREAT because they have more time to spend on both, hero and villain. Between Dotty Unterwood, Whitney Frost, Kingpin, Killgrave, Grand Ward, Mr. Hyde, Hive, nobody can convince me that there aren't enough great villains in the MCU. The movies just set their focus on a different place.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#52115: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:50:41 PM

[up][up] I'm aware, but in his appearance in the Immortal Iron Fist series he always struck me as far more nebulous than his original Amazing Man self. Prince of Orphans is treated by everyone as incredibly mysterious and shadowy (and he does seem to be far more deceptive and cunning than his original self), so I always imagined this reimagined version might have a different origin or background.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#52116: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:53:39 PM

You what would be interesting? If there was a movie from the perspective of the villain. Now that would be a bold move.

What villain should it be, though? Loki would be the obvious choice, since he can easily play an anti-villain/anti-hero. But he's perhaps too obvious and too overused (although I wish we could get Kid Loki).

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#52117: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:59:47 PM

Some hi res versions of two of the Civil War stills.

It looks like they tightened the CGI on Team Iron Man a little more. BP looks excellent.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#52118: Feb 25th 2016 at 2:04:48 PM

[up][up][up][up]And almost all example are from TV series and not without their own issues(Like grand become punshing bag after his reveal) when we talk about movie as own the result are pretty bad: Malekith is generic and his screentime is eaten by Loki, Red skull is meh, Ultron to weird in chararterization seen the movie go so fast and almost all tony stark villians are just evil copy of him(with Vanki getting sideling to see more Drunk!tony and hammer being just nunance at best) a least obadiah give him something of a fight.

Compare with Hydra and Loki who where given motivation,competence and more important screen time, instead of this sorta enemy who is there to have a climax in the end. it have become a issue in movies.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#52119: Feb 25th 2016 at 2:05:32 PM

[up][up][up]It would never work for a ton of reasons but I would love a Mephisto movie with everything from him going to a bar at the end of work to relax, trolling other tricksters, trying to seduce someone to be his date for the annual hell dinner, toying with the souls of the damned and totally not invading other realms.

edited 25th Feb '16 2:05:56 PM by LordofLore

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#52120: Feb 25th 2016 at 2:07:13 PM

I can't speak for Daredevil since I haven't watched past the second episode, but as far as Jessica Jones is concerned, I haven't finished that either but am about 7/8 episodes in and I think Kilgrave is an excellent villain.

But I always considered the TV marvel efforts kind of separate, because it is a different medium where they have a lot more time to flesh out the characters in general. I was mostly just talking about the movies.

edited 25th Feb '16 2:11:16 PM by wehrmacht

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#52121: Feb 25th 2016 at 2:25:09 PM

we got Molly punching the Punisher in the nuts and/or intestines so this disdain is not all bad.

...

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat.

EDIT: Also, has Elektra ever been written as having an accent in the comics?

edited 25th Feb '16 2:26:20 PM by TargetmasterJoe

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#52123: Feb 25th 2016 at 2:27:50 PM

If Marvel ever gets the F4 rights back, I hope their first movies is named "Doom" - can you imagine, a whole movie about his origin story, which could introduce Richard Reed pre-powers without the need to dive into the whole origin story of the F4 again?

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#52124: Feb 25th 2016 at 2:28:47 PM

[up][up]That was also a pretty sweet Take That! as well since Whedon has said he fucking hates the Punisher because he considers him a murderous fascist.

edited 25th Feb '16 2:29:07 PM by comicwriter

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#52125: Feb 25th 2016 at 2:31:09 PM

By the way, in your list of shallow awesome Disney movie villains, you forgot Gaston, Hades, Jafar, and Doctor Facilier.

edited 25th Feb '16 2:33:58 PM by PushoverMediaCritic


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