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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#52076: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:04:24 PM

I liked it mostly.

Its in an odd position where it has to tear down the rest of the marvel universe to boost itself up to a point where it gets annoying sometimes.

"Oh no a giant monster is destroying LA oh too bad the 'heroes' are all too busy with registration those piss babies. Even though its a magic giant monster and Dr Strange is uninvolved and should probably be taking care of this everybody else in the verse is a bunch of dumb babies with their costumes and codenames not like us cool young people"

But overall, if you ignore those swipes (like Captain America just throwing the kids in foster care and never checking back up on them?) it was pretty great

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#52077: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:05:38 PM

[up][up][up] So what? He pretended to try to kill him, so that he could sit in prison, being all excited about the notion that Tony's reputation (which he doesn't really care for anyway) is marred during the short time until he dies anyway?

edited 25th Feb '16 1:05:48 PM by Swanpride

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#52078: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:06:36 PM

[up][up]It's doubly funny now since several of the kids later went on to join teams with costumed superheroes.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#52079: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:06:59 PM

@Comic!Malekith: He gets more interesting later. Before TDW came out someone here described him best as Thor's Joker without the archenemy part and a huge thirst for blood and power. There's a arc where he briefly intrudes upon Iron Man that's kinda amazing in the "wow dark elves are fucking creepy and way more like the fair folk than I thought" and "wow, Iron Man in a iron suit vs a people weak to iron is kinda horrifying" vibe.

@Jokes in TDW: Didn't the new director for Ragnarok say that he wanted to focus on the jokes more so that it could truly be a funny road trip movie?

@Genderfluid Marvel characters: Gillen/Ewing!Loki was great. "I'm me. First, last and always."

edited 25th Feb '16 1:10:34 PM by LordofLore

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#52080: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:08:58 PM

[up][up][up][up]Yeah, there's a reason I don't ready current stuff about Danny.

[up][up][up] I don't feel like that's any different from Nova chewing Tony out for the Annihilation wave thing that happened during civil war.

On the whole I found the whole "Adult superheros struggle to understand and relate to these teen heroes" was done well, especially as the story explored why when heroes who started off as teen heroes encounter the runaways and can relate to them.

edited 25th Feb '16 1:10:56 PM by Whowho

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#52081: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:10:41 PM

That's a concept that could work especially well in the MCU since there are very few teen superheroes thus far.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#52082: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:13:00 PM

I should really look up where the Runaways kids are now days. I bumped into Victor applying for a job with Tony Stark in the current Ant Man book and it was like bumping into an old friend at a job interview.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#52083: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:17:17 PM

Some of them are dead, the rest formed some sort of revenge squad and started flirting with being villains.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#52084: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:17:20 PM

Personally when it comes to Iron Fist, I think Danny Rand being non-asian is a necessary evil because that's the whole gist of his character (being foreign to Asian culture and entering it), but I feel the one they really should Race Lift is Orson Randall, the previous Iron Fist. I mean the current Iron Fist being a white guy is strange but okay, Iron Fist is a Legacy Character, there have been several of them and literally all of them seem to be Asian.

And then they introduce the previous iron Fist and it's another white guy. The fuck. He's a WWI veteran with PTSD and that's the gist of his character, okay, but I feel a good solution would be portraying him as Gurkha, for example, who fought for the British Empire in WWI. Allows his backstory and character to stay mostly untouched while making him Asian.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#52085: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:18:32 PM

I think Danny Rand being non-asian is a necessary evil because that's the whole gist of his character (being foreign to Asian culture and entering it)
I mean. A Chinese guy can have a first exposure to Japanese culture, or Korean, or Vietnamese. There's enough diversity in the continent to make that interesting.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#52086: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:19:31 PM

Just have Danny be good, but not the best. Easy aversion to Mighty Whitey.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#52087: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:20:15 PM

@Gaon- Didn't know about the previous Iron Fist, but I agree on both counts.

IMO, with a a Danny of East Asian descent, you have the problem of having a story about a over-Americanized Asian guy learning about his real culture, which of course involves Kung Fu.

edited 25th Feb '16 1:20:51 PM by Hodor2

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#52088: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:22:29 PM

I would again like to point out that there are a vast number of Asian cultures that Danny could've come from without making him less of a foreigner to the one that gives him his superpowers.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#52089: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:22:56 PM

Why is it such a big deal to make him white like in the comics?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#52091: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:24:08 PM

Yeah, but Danny Rand's shtick is being foreign to Asian culture as of itself. He's Western as it gets, complete with being a white rich playboy from New York. Which is one of those things that started off as probably racism and carries some Unfortunate Implications, but writers (Brubaker, Fraction and Duane Swierczynski chiefly) can make some really interesting stories with the concept of balancing his urbane, western, capitalist, modern, typically American world with the Kung Fu, Eastern, zen-buddhist traditional, mythological Asian world he inhabits.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#52092: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:24:09 PM

I would hope the Immortal Weapons are involved in some way because Matt Fraction and Ed Brubaker introducing them went a long way to downplaying the Mighty Whitey aspects (which I think is the intention).

He's one of the Immortal Weapons out there (instead of the sole one) but there are others and most of them actually are actually Asian.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#52093: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:24:30 PM

The surviving Runaways are considering becoming villains?

What.

What books has this transpired in?

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#52094: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:24:41 PM

Averting deeply-engrained racial stereotypes that it's become apparent some aren't willing to engage with the significance of.

Yeah, but Danny Rand's shtick is being foreign to Asian culture as of itself.
Yeah but there's no such fucking thing.

writers can make some really interesting stories with the concept of balancing his urbane, western, capitalist, modern, typically American world with the Kung Fu, Eastern, zen-buddhist traditional, mythological Asian world he inhabits.
But there are plenty of Asian countries with urban areas! And capitalism! And...and modernness!

edited 25th Feb '16 1:26:09 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#52095: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:25:40 PM

I'm fine with swipes against Civil War. But Runaways entire existence presupposes that the rest of the universe is incompetent and has to be otherwise the plot collapses.

The heroes have to be completely oblivious to a giant criminal and world-ending conspiracy on the west coast even when there was a team of Avengers stationed there. The heroes have to show complete lack of care about these traumatized children who are the offspring of villains to the point where they just throw them in foster care without ever following up, never even checking on Chase's aunt who was just a PO Box. And then once the conspiracy was revealed, the heroes have to continue to just ignore LA even as villains start to openly move into the area. Well except for some washup teen heroes so they can be the chumps to make the Runaways look more cool.

And that's fine. I can ignore all of this enough to enjoy the series.

Its just rather striking how much Runaways built its very premise and continued existence on the implication that the rest of the setting sucks.

On the other hand, we got Molly punching the Punisher in the nuts and/or intestines so this disdain is not all bad.

Edit: Wow, the thread moved on muchly in the time it took to type that up.

edited 25th Feb '16 1:27:25 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#52096: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:26:44 PM

Danny being ethnically Chinese doesn't mean he wouldn't be an outsider in an Asian culture. Most third generation+ people probably don't feel a lot of connection to their homeland.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#52097: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:28:04 PM

The sequel to Avengers Arena, the same book that killed off some of the Runaways. Avengers Underground I think it was called.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#52098: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:28:16 PM

The surviving Runaways are considering becoming villains? What. What books has this transpired in?

It was just Nico and Chase but they went against it. Nico is a member of A-Force now.

Meanwhile Alex is alive again and part of the Masters of Evil now.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#52099: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:30:21 PM

In defence of Cap and putting the Runaways in foster care, the Runaways didn't give him much of a chance to catch up with them, the Runaways ran away.

[up] Whaaaaatt. This is what happens when I don't pay attention.

I didn't realise there was a current masters of evil. When did they reform? What's the roster?

And Nico is cool, yet another reason to pick up A-force. Though I'm not sure how enjoyable she will be without her team. She must be brushing the twenty now right?

edited 25th Feb '16 1:33:25 PM by Whowho

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#52100: Feb 25th 2016 at 1:30:26 PM

Its just rather striking how much Runaways built its very premise and continued existence on the implication that the rest of the setting sucks.

One large reason I've never cared for the series.


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