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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#51876: Feb 23rd 2016 at 9:14:15 AM

Topher Grace is actually really good as the baddie in American Ultra, for what that's worth, and like with Eddie Brock he's a complete dweeb who's really just pissed people other than him get to do things. So I'm willing to chalk his performance in Spider-Man 3 up to the writing and directing.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#51877: Feb 23rd 2016 at 9:17:11 AM

Honestly, Topher Grace is a good actor, I think it was the presentation in general. Venom is supposed to be a burly, hulking nightmare, but Sam Raimi didn't want to make him a Serkis Folk because he was still in the stage of his career where he wanted to use as many practical effects as possible.

You could have still had a wimpy looking Eddie Brock that can transform into a nightmarish, massive monster. Ultimate Spider-Man did just that. Eddie had an average build in his human form but was a huge monster whenever he turned into Venom. They should have just bit the bullet and done that, but instead, we got a wimpy, scrawny looking Venom in addition to a wimpy, scrawny looking Eddie.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#51878: Feb 23rd 2016 at 9:25:00 AM

[up]I don't think he was wimpy as Venom. He was very much a threat.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#51879: Feb 23rd 2016 at 9:26:50 AM

Another factor is Raimi not liking the Venom character in the first place, so he half-assed it.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#51880: Feb 23rd 2016 at 9:33:20 AM

I hope that when Pepper turns up again, they finally clear if she has still any power from the extremis or not.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#51881: Feb 23rd 2016 at 9:54:05 AM

[up]Personally I kind of like the idea that Pepper still has maybe 2% of the Extremis powers. Not enough to pull off any serious superheroics, but enough to completely screw over anyone who thinks she's just a normal human and tries to hold her hostage.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#51882: Feb 23rd 2016 at 10:38:46 AM

I think any implication that Pepper has a form of Extremis that works perfectly with no drawbacks would retroactively justify Killian's choices overmuch. The point of Extremis was that it was a violently unstable chemical cocktail that was actively killing the people who use it.

Suggesting that if Stark had just worked with Killian, they could make a perfect super-soldier serum with tons of benefits and zero drawbacks kind of makes Killian less of a bad guy. A version of Extremis that gives people total regeneration and has no dangerous elements whatsoever would change the world for the better.

edited 23rd Feb '16 10:39:35 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#51883: Feb 23rd 2016 at 10:39:24 AM

Pepper breaks up the fight by beating up both Iron Man and Cap.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51884: Feb 23rd 2016 at 10:40:27 AM

[up][up] Well, the Centipede project in Agents of SHIELD was supposed to be the Extremis serum plus a bunch of other stuff with no drawbacks. I mean, sure, at first, people exploded, but then they took Scorch's blood and fixed that.

edited 23rd Feb '16 10:42:05 AM by alliterator

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#51885: Feb 23rd 2016 at 10:41:15 AM

The Centipede serum doesn't have regenerative properties. It just makes super-soldiers.

A perfected version of Killian's Extremis minus the explosive component would make Tony Stark the shittiest person in the entire world for not immediately mass-producing the cure for every illness and injury known to man.

edited 23rd Feb '16 10:41:59 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Philcoulson I do not think of myself as a king I think of my from From shadows Since: May, 2015 Relationship Status: Abstaining
I do not think of myself as a king I think of my
#51886: Feb 23rd 2016 at 10:41:38 AM

The villain of the first new Spider man movie will probably be Vulture

All I see I conquer
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51887: Feb 23rd 2016 at 10:43:52 AM

A perfected version of Killian's Extremis minus the explosive component would make Tony Stark the shittiest person in the entire world for not immediately mass-producing the cure for every illness and injury known to man.
I don't think they ever stated it was the cure for every illness, but rather it could regrow limbs and regenerate wounds. But also, it gave you dangerous superpowers - whether or not you exploded, you still got the superpowers, so I'd think even if he removed the drawbacks from Extremis, he still wouldn't release it since, you know, he doesn't want a bunch of people running out with the ability to burn things with their hands.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#51888: Feb 23rd 2016 at 10:48:39 AM

I'm pretty sure the fire-based superpowers were part of the same side effect that made people explode. The intent of Extremis was to regenerate limbs for combat veterans. People just got fiery hands because the Extremis was overheating.

Point is, if Tony was able to perfect Extremis and give Pepper a purified version that allows her to regenerate from any injury forever with no drawbacks or addictive componentsHey! , then him actively making the decision that it's better to let people with serious injuries die or lived out their lives crippled rather than heal all their injuries and also give them some neat superpowers makes him a really shitty superhero.

Extremis Pepper is cool, but she isn't worth the implication that Tony Stark is sitting on something that would save millions of lives and improve millions more just because he doesn't want to share. Especially since a cure for every injury imaginable is exactly the kind of thing he'd rather be building than weapons.

How do you explain to a man in a wheelchair that you can give him the ability to walk again but you won't because f*ck disabled veterans?

edited 23rd Feb '16 10:49:43 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51890: Feb 23rd 2016 at 11:05:57 AM

I'm pretty sure the fire-based superpowers were part of the same side effect that made people explode.
But there were people who didn't explode that still had fire powers. The Extremis powers were still there even after the exploding side effects were gone.

edited 23rd Feb '16 11:06:57 AM by alliterator

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#51891: Feb 23rd 2016 at 11:09:25 AM

The problem with the Extremis was that it was instable and also made people aggressive. The version Garret used had no healing factor, otherwise Mike wouldn't be a cyborg now.

And who says that Tony or his company isn't looking into a non-dangerous version of it? Not everyone is so irresponsible to start experiments on humans without any prior preparations.

edited 23rd Feb '16 11:10:07 AM by Swanpride

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#51892: Feb 23rd 2016 at 11:11:28 AM

[up][up] No, there weren't. Everyone who had fire powers in Iron Man 3 was at risk of exploding. That's what, "Can you regulate?" means: they're asking for assurance that the person can control themselves enough that their next dose won't end in Killian bullshitting another terrorist attack. Just because some characters didn't explode doesn't mean there wasn't a possibility that they could lose control and detonate.

Centipede used parts of Extremis in its cocktail and gave people super-strength, but those people couldn't regenerate and didn't have fire powers.

[up] The hypothetical Extremis Pepper says that. If Tony has a perfected version of Extremis that gives Pepper all the benefits and none of the drawbacks, then the human experimentation would already be a glaring success. All he'd have to do is reproduce what he did to Pepper and boom: flawless Extremis ready to change the world.

edited 23rd Feb '16 11:14:12 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51893: Feb 23rd 2016 at 11:16:14 AM

[up] Wasn't the Hypothetical Extremis Pepper question though that she retained some of the Extremis powers, but not all? So Tony was able to get rid of most of the Extremis, but not all of it.

Centipede used parts of Extremis in its cocktail and gave people super-strength, but those people couldn't regenerate and didn't have fire powers.
It still had the side-effect of exploding people though, which ironically was countered with an actual person with fire powers.

edited 23rd Feb '16 11:17:10 AM by alliterator

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#51894: Feb 23rd 2016 at 11:18:25 AM

True. Prior to Scorch's non-consensual contribution, Centipede was actually shittier than Extremis because it only gave you super strength but you still explode sometimes.

It was much less than the sum of its parts.

edited 23rd Feb '16 11:19:20 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#51895: Feb 23rd 2016 at 11:30:44 AM

Suggesting that if Stark had just worked with Killian, they could make a perfect super-soldier serum with tons of benefits and zero drawbacks kind of makes Killian less of a bad guy.

Not if you ignore the multiple accounts of murder/attempted murder as well as using a fictional boogieman to dupe the U.S

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#51896: Feb 23rd 2016 at 11:46:17 AM

Yeah, but all that was done to cover up the fact that Extremis subjects kept exploding. If Tony could tweak Extremis such that people stop exploding but still keep the regenerative powers, none of the conspiracies would have been necessary.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51897: Feb 23rd 2016 at 11:59:09 AM

True. Prior to Scorch's non-consensual contribution, Centipede was actually shittier than Extremis because it only gave you super strength but you still explode sometimes.
That's what you get when you just throw in a bunch of stuff. I think it include Chitauri metal, gamma radiation, and the Super Soldier Serum as well as Extremis, right? Those things probably don't really work well together.

But what can we expect from Hydra, amiright?

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#51898: Feb 23rd 2016 at 12:12:45 PM

The hypothetical Extremis Pepper says that. If Tony has a perfected version of Extremis that gives Pepper all the benefits and none of the drawbacks, then the human experimentation would already be a glaring success. All he'd have to do is reproduce what he did to Pepper and boom: flawless Extremis ready to change the world.

Yeah, it's better if Pepper shows up in the Rescue armor instead of keeping Extremis.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#51899: Feb 23rd 2016 at 12:15:56 PM

I was so angry when all the promotional stuff for IM 3 made the fact Pepper would wear a suit such a big deal when she only wears one for 1 minute and isn't the real focus of the scene at all.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#51900: Feb 23rd 2016 at 12:22:00 PM

She was pretty rad at the end though

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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