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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#51476: Feb 15th 2016 at 4:04:17 PM

[up][up]Well, the Dark Elves' main goal was to destroy the universe.

My various fanfics.
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#51477: Feb 15th 2016 at 4:09:22 PM

[up]And we are still trying to figure out why, by the way^^'

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#51478: Feb 15th 2016 at 4:24:46 PM

From Odin's talk to Jane it seems The Dark Elves existed in the abject darkness that existed before the universe came around, and basically find all of creation to be revoltingly repulsive.

They basically want to go home, is their motivation, but home here means "the vast nothingness after a universe ceases to exist"

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#51479: Feb 15th 2016 at 4:26:41 PM

He's already had one fakeout before, so him getting killed off even if it doesn't stick wouldn't have much impact.

He's also playing a character famous for death fakeouts, so nobody would really buy it.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#51480: Feb 15th 2016 at 4:29:49 PM

[up][up]Funny enough there was a evil god with that same goal in the Hercules comic IIRC. I think he actually succeeded but only managed to do it to a artificial pocket universe he got trapped in at the last second IIRC.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#51481: Feb 15th 2016 at 5:07:28 PM

The cat Loki thing reminds me of what happened when Thor, Thor and Loki showed up in Squirrelgirl. Squirrelgirl's friend was marvelling at Loki's shape-shifting and asked if he could take the shape of her fan-fiction character, Cat Thor. Loki spent the rest of the comic with a big cat head, a tiny hammer and Thor's classic helmet, amusing Thor and infuriating Thor to no end.

edited 15th Feb '16 5:08:18 PM by Zeromaeus

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51482: Feb 15th 2016 at 5:15:13 PM

For those who wish to see it on the page, here you go.

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#51483: Feb 15th 2016 at 5:45:58 PM

@51480: His name is Amatsu Mikaboshi.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#51484: Feb 16th 2016 at 3:20:34 AM

I doubt that they will kill Nick Fury. SLJ is so into the role, it would stupid to give that up. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they renewed his contract already.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#51485: Feb 16th 2016 at 10:54:56 AM

If they have to kill off someone, it should be someone really big. Otherwise don't even bother. That's the problem I have when these death discussions come up.

It's always argued paradoxically that the movies need a big death to hammer home the seriousness or add some genuine stakes, and at the same time, that the death needs to be someone who isn't important or doesn't have a franchise hinging on them. The first argument everyone makes for killing off people like Hawkeye or War Machine or even Black Widow is supposedly that they're redundant or don't bring anything to the team, or are expendable because they don't have their own movie franchises. I usually see some variation of the phrase "X could be killed without really altering the group dynamic or changing anything too drastically."

That's exactly what you don't want if your goal for killing a character is to spark an emotional reaction from the audience or raise stakes or make a big impact on the movie. Otherwise it's just killing off cannon fodder for the hell of it.

I mean, are there very many people who genuinely think Quicksilver's death was well done and meaningful? It was killing off the one genuinely safe choice.

edited 16th Feb '16 10:56:18 AM by comicwriter

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#51486: Feb 16th 2016 at 10:57:22 AM

I thought it was well-done and meaningful.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51487: Feb 16th 2016 at 11:04:41 AM

I, too, thought Quicksilver's death was well done and meaningful. I mean, you actually don't expect him to die because he's an interesting new character and gives a younger, iconoclastic viewpoint to the Avengers.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#51488: Feb 16th 2016 at 11:07:25 AM

To me it just came across like killing the guy who they could get rid of because he doesn't have his own movie franchise and they're not really gonna lose anything financially.

If you're trying to up the stakes, up them or go home.

edited 16th Feb '16 11:07:31 AM by comicwriter

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#51489: Feb 16th 2016 at 11:07:46 AM

I thought Quicksilver's death was well done in as much as it clearly allowed Fox to keep using the character without issue. I could not find it meaningful.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#51490: Feb 16th 2016 at 11:09:05 AM

I thought it was decent.

I disagree however with the argument that Nick Fury isn't a major character (Or Hawkeye and Widow for that matter). Nick Fury's the guy who brought them together, he's the unflappable master spy, the guy who gets them resources, the Big Good to not only The Avengers but Coulson's Neo-SHIELD, the works. As far as deaths go he'd the most major short of one of the Avengers themselves (for that matter I think Vision is also probably doomed).

The thing isn't necessairily that deaths have to happen for any dramatic situation, but that this is a conflict that's been built up ad infinitum since '2012''. The Infinity War, the war of all wars, the Avengers's biggest foe yet, their greatest battle. It'd feel very underwhelming if Thanos went by and the Avengers didn't lose anything of real value. He's supposed to be their ultimate enemy, and fightng him is their Darkest Hour. Something has to die for that feel to be achieved, otherwise it just feels like Status Quo Is God.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#51491: Feb 16th 2016 at 11:11:55 AM

I never thought the point was to up the stakes. That's not the only reason to kill off a character. I 100% thought the point was allowing Fox to be the only one using him, BUT, it was handled very well and was indeed a genuinely surprising death that very few people saw coming.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#51492: Feb 16th 2016 at 11:12:19 AM

I wouldn't say Fury isn't a major character. He definitely is. But again, he's a "safe" choice. He's not physically powerful and he's not someone they're hinging a movie franchise on.

Now if they seriously killed one of the "Big 4"? That would seriously shock me and tell me this is a case where Thanos plays for keeps and that shit is about to get real.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#51493: Feb 16th 2016 at 11:13:29 AM

Captain America dying in Civil War is still a very real possibility.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#51494: Feb 16th 2016 at 11:18:17 AM

I have said it before and I'll say it again: Death is the most boring of consequences. Kill a character off and you can't do anything with him or her anymore. Steve and Peggy being forced away from each other, living their lives separated by time is a great consequence. SHIELD falling apart is a great consequence. The death of Frigga was well-done, but not because her character was so important, but because of the way she died, to be precise, what laid to it. Loki being partly responsible for the death of the one person he knew still loved him, no matter what, that's its own kind of tragic.

I said before that War Machine is my favourite candidate for dying in Civil war, not just because I wouldn't miss him (so his death wouldn't take any particular important story-line from me), but because this would impact Tony more than anyone else dying as the consequence of his and Steve's actions. But I have to amend that: Even better would be if her got hurt so badly, that in future his suit is no longer just a weapon, but something he needs to stand at all.

And, btw, other than Steve ending up in the ice, the most emotional "death" in the MCU is Groot sacrificing himself. This scene works not because someone is "dying", but because of the emotional underpinning.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#51495: Feb 16th 2016 at 11:20:55 AM

For me Quicksilver death as intersting but waaaaay to dramatic, like "HAWKEYE IS GOING TO DIE....NO WAY IS BLACKWIDOW...NO WAY IS WANDA.....WHO COULD BE?" it was too long to actually cared.

But on the other hand, I prefer Quicksilver over Wanda because she brainswashed Hulk and the other and yet the movie just wash away her deeds, at least his brother look like he actually help.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#51496: Feb 16th 2016 at 11:23:58 AM

Since people liked seeing how comic!Groot met Rocket the first time on paper last time, here is the history of "I Am Groot".

edited 16th Feb '16 11:24:34 AM by LordofLore

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#51498: Feb 16th 2016 at 11:31:32 AM

I agree death is a last resort but I disagree that death is a inherently boring consequence.

I for one think it is fantastic to see these larger-than-life, bombastic icons of righteousness finally coming to terms with their own mortality, To borrow a bit from the Joker, when people are about to die, they tend to show who they really are, in a way.

For a quick cinematographic adaptation example, Boromir is a great, nuanced character with his own demons and heroes, excellently portrayed by Sean Bean, and I'd love to have seen more of him but, his death is by far his character's absolute finest hour. Honorably and selflessly showing his valor by dying for his comrades and dying giving one final, tearjerking speech to Aragorn, finally acknowledging Aragorn as "his king...his captain". It also serves to show how utterly screwed everything is, as Boromir falls and the Fellowship breaks, and that the Orcs aren't fucking around.

That's a magnificent moment that's only allowed by killing a character. To have a character face death, be it with dignity or despair, is often the best thing to do to a character.

edited 16th Feb '16 11:31:47 AM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#51499: Feb 16th 2016 at 11:33:11 AM

[up]Yes, but that works because Boromir was designed to die. If Frodo were killed off in this scene, you would have a shock effect, but it wouldn't serve the story at all.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#51500: Feb 16th 2016 at 11:35:30 AM

[up][up][up]she help but....it feel her deeps as sidekick of Ultron are just brush aside for her to be in avengers.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

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