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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#51301: Feb 10th 2016 at 11:11:30 PM

Oh yeah, because all the marketing about that character has been about the Moni Corps.

My various fanfics.
FoxBoxKid Philosophy Enthusiast from California Republic Since: Oct, 2013
Philosophy Enthusiast
#51302: Feb 10th 2016 at 11:11:39 PM

What if Wally West was a woman who had been Kid Flash? Would those of you expressing concerns over Mar-Vell see a problem with Barry Allen being in that story?

edited 10th Feb '16 11:12:16 PM by FoxBoxKid

Make mine Marvel.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#51303: Feb 10th 2016 at 11:12:41 PM

Well, Barry Allen is white...

My various fanfics.
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#51304: Feb 10th 2016 at 11:13:27 PM

[up][up][up]Is that still a thing? DeConnick isn't even writing Captain Marvel anymore.

edited 10th Feb '16 11:13:42 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
FoxBoxKid Philosophy Enthusiast from California Republic Since: Oct, 2013
Philosophy Enthusiast
#51305: Feb 10th 2016 at 11:15:25 PM

[up][up] So's Wally West. Am I missing something?

edited 10th Feb '16 11:18:26 PM by FoxBoxKid

Make mine Marvel.
FoxBoxKid Philosophy Enthusiast from California Republic Since: Oct, 2013
Philosophy Enthusiast
#51307: Feb 10th 2016 at 11:30:56 PM

[up]I'm not talking about that Wally West. I'm talking about the one who's the Flash.

Make mine Marvel.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51308: Feb 11th 2016 at 12:07:18 AM

What if Wally West was a woman who had been Kid Flash? Would those of you expressing concerns over Mar-Vell see a problem with Barry Allen being in that story?
If it was the first female-led DC movie? Then yes, I would have the same problem. But considering Wonder Woman is the first female-led DC movie, no, not really.

Is that still a thing? DeConnick isn't even writing Captain Marvel anymore.
Even though Kelly Sue DeConnick stopped writing Captain Marvel, that doesn't mean Carol Danvers stopped being Captain Marvel. Her current series (written by the showrunners of Agent Carter) is really, really good.

And if you mean the Carol Corps then, yes, that's also still a thing.

edited 11th Feb '16 12:08:33 AM by alliterator

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#51309: Feb 11th 2016 at 12:22:41 AM

No, I meant the Carol Corps. There's a degree to which I don't really think they're why the film's getting made, but then that's possibly because I've never really bought them as a grassroots fandom movement. Marvel decided up front that Carol Danvers was their Important Female Character and hired a writer for her with a suitably large base. The first female-led MCU movie was always gonna be her.

I am, perhaps, slightly bitter that Marvel did not stop and think "hey, we've already got a female Captain Marvel, and she's one of the few WOC we've managed to keep in-house film-wise..."

I am, actually, considering picking up the new Captain Marvel book, as I enjoy Agent Carter and the premise seems to be "Marvel does DS9", which has my attention. (What was the pitch for the KSC run? "We have a book with a female lead, finally, please read it so we can claim we're not sexist?")

edited 11th Feb '16 12:24:33 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51310: Feb 11th 2016 at 12:34:22 AM

No, I meant the Carol Corps. There's a degree to which I don't really think they're why the film's getting made, but then that's possibly because I've never really bought them as a grassroots fandom movement. Marvel decided up front that Carol Danvers was their Important Female Character and hired a writer for her with a suitably large base. The first female-led MCU movie was always gonna be her.
Except KSC didn't have that much of a big fanbase before Captain Marvel. It was only when she started writing Captain Marvel that she got the fanbase - which is why it's called the "Carol Corps" instead of, say, "Kelly Sue Korps." (The new Ms. Marvel also has a fandom called the Kamala Korps.) Before Captain Marvel, KSD hadn't written that many high profile stuff - Pretty Deadly and Bitch Planet were all way after she started writing Captain Marvel.

Honestly, I think Marvel was surprised when Captain Marvel got such a big following, even though the book itself didn't get that much readers. As soon as they realized it, though, they did capitalize on it, but that just makes sense.

And yes, you should read the new Captain Marvel. It's great.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#51311: Feb 11th 2016 at 12:37:11 AM

Her Wikipedia page is laid out confusingly, but actually, Pretty Deadly predates her Cap run by about half a year. And I do remember there being a huge promotional push for the book at the time.

I dunno if I can pick up another book right now. I'm already reading Ms. Marvel, Squirrel-Girl, Moon Girl, Invader Zim and Jughead. But I do really want to pick up Captain Marvel, so I'll see if I can find room.

edited 11th Feb '16 12:39:25 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51312: Feb 11th 2016 at 12:40:59 AM

Her Wikipedia page is laid out confusingly, but actually, Pretty Deadly predates her Cap run by about half a year.
No, it doesn't. KSD's Captain Marvel #1 came out in July 2012, while Pretty Deadly came out in 2014. You are thinking of when the book was relaunched in 2014, but KSD had already been writing the book for two years prior.

edited 11th Feb '16 12:41:45 AM by alliterator

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#51313: Feb 11th 2016 at 12:42:40 AM

...why the hell is there a volume seven and a volume eight, less than a year apart, with the same creative team

that's just needlessly confusing

(I'm not wrong about the promotional push for v.7, I don't think, though. I was writing a paper on sexism in comics at the time, and while I don't think I did a very good job, I do at least think my research was decent.)

edited 11th Feb '16 12:43:39 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51314: Feb 11th 2016 at 12:45:49 AM

Because Marvel loves relaunching books at #1. And there had been a recent relaunch called "All-New Marvel NOW," so they decided to end the previous run and relaunch it again with a new #1 to try and get new readers. (Daredevil was also relaunched in order to get more readers with the exact same creative team of Mark Waid and Chris Samnee.)

All in all, KSD wrote 36 issues of Captain Marvel - 17 issues of Captain Marvel Vol 7, 15 issues of Captain Marvel Vol 8, and 4 issues of Captain Marvel and the Carol Corps (although those were co-written with Kelly Thompson). She wrote the character for a total of four years, which is a pretty good run these days.

I'm not wrong about the promotional push for v.7, I don't think, though. I was writing a paper on sexism in comics at the time, and while I don't think I did a very good job, I do at least think my research was decent.
Yeah, I think you are correct. 2012 seems to be the Year Marvel Tried to Reach Out to Women. With Captain Marvel, it worked in gaining a pretty fervent fanbase, so they added more and more female-led books, some of which worked great (like Ms. Marvel) and some of which were good, but didn't find enough readers (like She-Hulk and Storm).

edited 11th Feb '16 12:48:18 AM by alliterator

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#51315: Feb 11th 2016 at 12:47:36 AM

About Mar-vell, while I'm sure he has plenty of fans, and probably rightly so...I couldn't really give less of a shit about him. I want to see Carol, and preferably Monica too (and eventually Kamala).

Shame that Carol will almost certainly be the first person to call herself Captain Marvel, because I'd love to see a variation of this scene.

If I were writing this, I'd try to find a way to give Monica superpowers as well, perhaps at the climax of the film? Because Monica's awesome.

...If she shows up, I hope she does the "trenchcoat and dreadlocks" look. That looks amazing.

Oh God! Natural light!
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#51316: Feb 11th 2016 at 12:54:04 AM

I am very much of the opinion that Kamala needs, like, a TV show or something, in the same way cinematic Spider-Man never quite makes any sense.

Because Marvel loves relaunching books at #1. And there had been a recent relaunch called "All-New Marvel NOW," so they decided to end the previous run and relaunch it again with a new #1 to try and get new readers. (Daredevil was also relaunched in order to get more readers with the exact same creative team of Mark Waid and Chris Samnee.)
Reading, as I am, Ms. Marvel and Squirrel-Girl, I'm aware of the tendency, but I didn't realize it was THAT frequent.

Yeah, I think you are correct. 2012 seems to be the Year Marvel Tried to Reach Out to Women.
It's kinda hilarious that Marvel Comics is trying to play the diversity card because DC Comics screwed up, while DC movies are doing the same thing to the MCU.

some of which worked great (like Ms. Marvel) and some of which were good, but didn't find enough readers (like She-Hulk and Storm).
Alas, poor She-Hulk. Some day you'll be able to have an ongoing for more than a year or two. Someday.

edited 11th Feb '16 12:57:04 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#51317: Feb 11th 2016 at 12:55:16 AM

[up] Can a TV show pull off her powers without it looking too weird? Then again, weird might actually work for her...

And yeah, that is rather frustrating. Hopefully they cut back on that a bit. I like it when titles get into the bigger numbers.

edited 11th Feb '16 12:56:04 AM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#51318: Feb 11th 2016 at 12:59:00 AM

[up][up]Kind of like how Marvel was founded to make comic books that adults could enjoy because DC was just being mindless fun for kids and nowadays DC is edgy, gritty, and dark?

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#51319: Feb 11th 2016 at 12:59:03 AM

[up][up]I mean, I think the numbering system as the be-all end-all of Where We Are In A Book has had its day, frankly. Big numbers are daunting, and multiple series with the same name are confusing. The industry's got to find a middle ground.

At the very least start putting the volume number on the cover as well.

[up]Yeah, but on a weirdly micro level.

edited 11th Feb '16 1:00:01 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#51320: Feb 11th 2016 at 12:59:50 AM

Wouldn't mind Monica Rambeau being Carol's earthly liaison. Carol can be the spacey Captain Marvel who deals with all the aliens due to her Mar-Vell connections, and Monica can be the Earth Marvel who's part of the Avengers and fights HYDRA and that kinda stuff.

edited 11th Feb '16 1:00:23 AM by AlleyOop

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#51321: Feb 11th 2016 at 1:01:51 AM

[up]It is interesting, isn't it, that the two function in such different ways.

A recent trend I really like is Marvel deciding that codename-sharing is a thing. We got two Hawkeyes, we've got two Spider-Mans, we've got two Thors, we've got two Hulks...two Captain Marvels could be good.

(Apropos of nothing, wasn't there a She-Hulk issue where some random thug decided all Asgardians are called "Thors"? I bet that guy feels vindicated right now.)

edited 11th Feb '16 1:03:01 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#51322: Feb 11th 2016 at 1:06:48 AM

I personally see an ending to Infinity War where Tony holds a press conference and announces that he's retiring from the Avengers, and that a new group of heroes is getting ready to take his place (this is assuming he doesn't die, of course). Then T'Challa takes the stage and announces that after the whole Thanos thing, the time has come for humanity to start expanding into the stars, and that Wakanda is working with the U.N. on joint space exploration and defense programs (we'll call them Alpha Flight and S.W.O.R.D., respectively), with Carol Danvers at the helm. I feel like that'd be a good way to transition into what I hope would be a Phase 4 that really took advantage of Marvel's more diverse properties.

edited 11th Feb '16 1:07:49 AM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#51323: Feb 11th 2016 at 3:00:35 AM

Let's be real here, the only reason Captain Mar-Vel ever existed was because Marvel wanted to pull the name "Captain Marvel" back from DC. And because nobody ever cared about him, Ms Marvel becoming Captain Marvel is one of the few cases in Comic book history in which a legacy character actually stuck and did replace the original. There is really no reason to make it complicated for the movie and give Mar-Vel more room than necessary from a story-telling point of view. Add to it the unfortunate implications of Marvel's first stand-alone heroine being the side-kick for a male character for most of the movie, it is better if they restructure the story a little bit to ensure that the spotlight is where it should be.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#51324: Feb 11th 2016 at 4:04:03 AM

Mar-Vell lasted 11 years by the way(and Monica stayed Cap for a long while before Genis briefly had the name and then it took years before Carol took up the name).

He literally only need to be in as many scenes as Thor's mom was in Thor 2 and can die half an hour in(and the movie is most likely 2h 30 min)after bringing whatever is the threat of the week to Earth and making Carol half Kree. Hell, he can die when pulled from his crashed ship in the explosion that gives Carol her powers in the first scene on Earth after the intro. Is it really that bad to want Carol to have her comic origin but updated a bunch like skipping the years she spent as Mar's best friend before the explosion and having her become Captain right away instead of being Ms for 30 years after her powers manifest? Carol will be in at least 5 movies in the years after her first so what damage does 10 minutes with her not as the only hero on the screen do? It's not like Disney would only make trailers featuring Mar as the big hero(-remembers SW VII and Rey playing second fiddle to Finn in the marketing-).

Also on the "Carol shouldn't be given powers by someone" that's who she is. She isn't Thor and has had her powers since birth, she's Spider-Man and got her powers by accident/destiny and chose to do good. The kree side of her gives her a connection to space that no other hero has. If you want to remove Mar put keep the explosion we might as well do Monica instead because that's pretty much her origin but I'm pretty sure we don't want CINO(Carol In Name Only)in a movie about a character who has been a superhero for 40 years and has ton of material to pull on.

Hell, Star-Lord's comic origin got changed(by Bendis!) before the movie came out to better fit with the MCU. Carol also had a similar scene where she goes back in time and sees her own origin again and it stays the same as it did 40 years before despite there being a big opportunity to change it. She even flashbacks to it later.

edited 11th Feb '16 4:29:58 AM by LordofLore

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#51325: Feb 11th 2016 at 4:39:33 AM

Oh, there is a LOT of material concerning Carol which better stays forgotten. For example I think we explored the topic of mind control extensively in Jessica Jones, I would prefer not to see a repeat of this.

And I honestly don't see a problem with tweaking her origin story a little bit. After all, Cassie doesn't have Cancer, Peter Quill never did the a-hole move to steal a position from someone else (honestly, the whole "got kidnapped as a child story" makes his character more interesting), Youndu is no longer a potentially questionable "noble native" trope, Bucky was never a child tagging along into war (and the very idea that he was Steve's childhood protector makes their friendship so much more compelling), Jessica was never an official Avenger, and Quake started working for shield before she got her abilities.


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