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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#51276: Feb 10th 2016 at 6:32:01 PM

[up][up] I agree Mar-vell should be in the MCU for a time at least certainly, but he needs to be used in a way so that there is no question that the movie is called "Captain Marvel" because it's about the character of Carol Danvers.

The bottom line is that alive or dead, existing or not, Mar-vell cannot under any circumstances hold the Captain Marvel title for more then a quarter (and even that might be pushing it) of the runtime of the Captain Marvel movie.

People have been waiting far too long for a female-led MCU movie as is, I'd rather not see Marvel fumble the only one on their slate by making it even the tiniest bit ambiguous if Carol Danvers is really the title character of the movie.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#51277: Feb 10th 2016 at 6:46:34 PM

Why does he need to hold the title at all? Let's assume we put the character in the movie. There are a lot of ways to go with it. IE CAPTAIN Carol Danvers is on some kind of mission when she encounters an alien named Mar-Vell (who could actually be a female too - or an alien without any gender). Originally distrustful because of the so far mostly negative experiences with aliens, she discovers that they have a common interest and team up on a mission. During said mission Mar-Vell there is a situation in which Carol Danvers try to protect his/her/its life, for example by covering the body during an explosion. It turns out that said explosion does not harm humans (naturally Carol didn't know that beforehand) and that covering the body didn't make any difference to its lethalness for this particular alien race, but due to the proximity, she gets Mar-Vell's abilities. Mar-Vell dies and she gives an interview because she wants to tell the world that not all aliens are dangerous. The press naturally runs with it/misunderstands something she said and call her Captain Marvel.

There are naturally other ways to do it, but every step they take to make the story about Carol first and foremost while avoiding some really unfortunate implications in her lore would be welcome on my part.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#51278: Feb 10th 2016 at 7:13:06 PM

Errrr, he wouldn't. Instead of "Kree soldier Captain Mar-Vell becomes a hero after meeting Carol and other humans and kicking robot ass" it would be something like "Kree war hero soldier Mar-Vell crashes on Earth and gets saved from exploding ship by Captain Carol Danvers who gets powers from becoming part Kree due to the explosion while close to the wounded Mar. Mar dies when he goes with Carol to face the villain at the start of the second act and Carol keeps kicking ass for the next 115 minutes and goes after Thanos who was behind everything at the end to avenge her friend and help save Earth".

Also, removing Mar-Vell is easy(if you have to) but removing Carol being half Kree is much harder(of course they might just make her Inhuman and make it so she had the power all along inside her...).

Thus far the origins for the heroes aren't extremely different from the comics in most cases. Star-Lord even goes to prison like he did during his reinvention before Annihilation.

edited 10th Feb '16 7:39:38 PM by LordofLore

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#51279: Feb 10th 2016 at 7:17:20 PM

Making Carol Inhuman would be the smoothest option.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
FoxBoxKid Philosophy Enthusiast from California Republic Since: Oct, 2013
Philosophy Enthusiast
#51282: Feb 10th 2016 at 7:36:07 PM

Batman Beyond had Bruce Wayne and Terry McGinnis. Ant-Man had Hank Pym and Scott Lang. Why can't Captain Marvel have Mar-Vell and Carol Danvers?

edited 10th Feb '16 7:39:39 PM by FoxBoxKid

Make mine Marvel.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#51283: Feb 10th 2016 at 7:38:10 PM

Yeah, the whole "in order for Captain Marvel to be a good movie, screw Mar-Vell" vibe I'm getting from this conversation seems extreme.

edited 10th Feb '16 7:38:24 PM by KnownUnknown

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#51284: Feb 10th 2016 at 7:38:34 PM

Bruce Wayne had 3 cartoons to be Batman before Terry was created.

Hank Pym was retired and psychically incapable of being Ant-Man anymore. Plus Ultron was used in the movie before him, so Hank didn't have any major contributions to make.

I do admit to not being on the side of Adapting Out Mar-Vell, but these examples aren't the best to use.

edited 10th Feb '16 7:40:19 PM by VeryMelon

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#51285: Feb 10th 2016 at 7:40:35 PM

Bruce Wayne had 3 cartoons to be Batman before Terry was created.

Hank Pym was retired and psychically incapable of being Ant-Man anymore.

The first one is a justifiable out-of-universe reason, but the second one is only that way because the people who adapted his character wrote him that way.

If the justification is that it's Carol's first movie, then the comparison to Ant-Man works. You could even go back to the first Superman movie and say it about Jor-El.

edited 10th Feb '16 7:55:45 PM by KnownUnknown

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51286: Feb 10th 2016 at 9:29:27 PM

Why can't Captain Marvel have Mar-Vell and Carol Danvers?
1) Because this is the first female-led superhero movie for Marvel. I don't want the movie to seem like it's saying "Carol needs this man to help her become a superhero." That would just be so bad, I would walk out.

2) Mar-Vell is currently dead in the comics. Do you know how long he's been dead? Since 1982. His death, in fact, is his most memorable storyline. It's pretty much the only thing people remember about him.

edited 10th Feb '16 9:30:16 PM by alliterator

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#51287: Feb 10th 2016 at 9:36:34 PM

If the movie is about Mar-vell, it would be like Yinsin having as much screen time as Tony in Iron-man or Dr. Eskin holding Steve's hand the whole time during Captain America. Mar-vell has to be treated like a side-character, mostly there to kick off Captain Marvel's abilities. Anything else would be an insult to the first female lead Superhero movie.

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#51288: Feb 10th 2016 at 9:49:34 PM

Easy answer: Have Carol running a test on an experimental plane that accidentally teleports her to a trippy dimensions where Captain Mar-Vell is stuck or something. She's going to get dragged out by the plane failsafes, and he can tell she'll be a hero no matter what, so he hands her his powers to do superheroics with.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#51289: Feb 10th 2016 at 9:50:28 PM

I'm still unsure what is the issue with the Hank Pym-Scott Lang scenario. That one featured both and absolutely everyone thought Scott was the lead character.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#51291: Feb 10th 2016 at 10:00:59 PM

Ant-man was so focussed on telling the story about the old and the new Ant-man, that the Wasp was marginalized. But what most people like about Ant-man is actually not him, but the Wasp. I think we lucked out that the director changed, though. I have the feeling that if Wright had been allowed to make his version, Janet would have been death for good and Hope's role would have been even smaller. This way we will hopefully get a proper Wasp the next time around.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#51292: Feb 10th 2016 at 10:04:14 PM

Hank Pym was retired and psychically incapable of being Ant-Man anymore.

Being Ant-Man requires psychic powers? I guess that's one way to control ants... tongue

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#51293: Feb 10th 2016 at 10:10:11 PM

[up][up][up] [up][up]That's not what I'm referring to though.

People previously observed Mar-Vell could be in Captain Marvel the same way Hank Pym is in Ant-Man. Scott Lang is the undisputed protagonist of Ant-Man, but Hank Pym got to stick around and be a major and cool character. I don't get what's the issue with having the same for Captain Marvel.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#51294: Feb 10th 2016 at 10:11:23 PM

And as people alluded to, he's kind of like Jor-El. He had his spotlight but people are more likely to remember his children as characters who do things.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51295: Feb 10th 2016 at 10:21:36 PM

I'm still unsure what is the issue with the Hank Pym-Scott Lang scenario. That one featured both and absolutely everyone thought Scott was the lead character.
There's a difference between Ant-Man (a movie with a male lead character, in a long line of movies with male lead characters) and Captain Marvel (the first solely female-led Marvel movie). In the first, there's no implication of sexism. In the second, there damn well is.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#51296: Feb 10th 2016 at 10:26:31 PM

If Mar-vell has too much screen presence, they might bring him back in the comics.

And an alive Mar-vell only ever leads to catastrophe.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#51297: Feb 10th 2016 at 10:53:36 PM

In [Ant-Man], there's no implication of sexism.
Except for the bit Scott can see where Hank Pym is coming from because Hank treats his thirty-year-old daughter as though she has the same amount of self-preservation as Scott's toddler, and somehow convinces Hope this is a perfectly good reason she can't be a superhero.

I have the feeling that if Wright had been allowed to make his version, Janet would have been death for good and Hope's role would have been even smaller. This way we will hopefully get a proper Wasp the next time around.
Hope wasn't in Wright's version.

edited 10th Feb '16 10:53:54 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
FoxBoxKid Philosophy Enthusiast from California Republic Since: Oct, 2013
Philosophy Enthusiast
#51298: Feb 10th 2016 at 11:02:48 PM

I think it's important for Mar-Vell to show up because I feel that being a Legacy Character is something inextricable from Captain Marvel.

Make mine Marvel.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#51299: Feb 10th 2016 at 11:04:51 PM

Just gender-swap Mar-Vell and keep her as a mentor.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#51300: Feb 10th 2016 at 11:05:12 PM

Solution: have Carol receive the powers from Monica Rambea—

Oh wait.

Hrm.

Solution: Have Monica Rambeau be Captain Marvel instead.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.

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