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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51151: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:28:11 PM

Heh. In Irredeemable, the Superman expy (the Plutonian) confronts the Batman expy in the very first pages...and burns him alive. The one who gives trouble to the Superman expy is actually the Fourth Doctor expy. (Yes, Irredeemable was weird, as well as awesome.)

edited 9th Feb '16 2:30:06 PM by alliterator

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#51152: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:29:02 PM

[up][up]You didn't see the worst he could do, trust me. If you want to see how bad he can get, check The Boys or The Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe. I personally also loathe Preacher, but apparently some people like that one so I guess it's a matter of taste.

edited 9th Feb '16 2:29:50 PM by Theokal3

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#51153: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:29:31 PM

I read a few issues of Irredemable. It's kind of funny that Waid had that kind of dark deconstruction storyline of Superman in him, given the other things he's written.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51154: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:30:11 PM

Garth Ennis is the worst about that.
Actually, when Garth Ennis is writing just straight up Superman? He is the best. Read "Of Thee I Sing," an issue of Hitman where Tommy meets Superman and Superman really shines in both his idealism and his self doubt. It's really one of the greatest Superman stories, mainly because it takes a look at Superman from Tommy's perspective.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#51155: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:32:00 PM

Ennis is fine with Superman actually, it's every other superpowered hero he seems to have a problem with.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#51156: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:32:06 PM

Ennis is the most baffling writer to me in the universe. Even more than Frank Miller, who wrote the most influential Daredevil and Batman stories of all time and the first volume of Sin City before he jumped off the fucking cliff into crazytown.

To me, almost every single thing Ennis has written that I have read has been nothing but garbage. But then he writes Superman and it's perfect. It blows my fucking mind.

My various fanfics.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#51157: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:37:37 PM

I thought he did pretty well with Punisher MAX, minus a few missteps.

Whether or not writing the Punisher well actually constitutes enjoyable is incredibly subjective, mind you.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#51158: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:37:54 PM

True, Ennis can write Superman very well. I was more thinking about the way he enforces Muggles Do It Better and "Superheroes are useless".

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51159: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:38:19 PM

If you haven't read it, I would recommend reading Hitman. It's one of his best works - it takes a bit of time to get into it, but once all the characters are introduced, it is so very, very good. (I wrote an article about it in case you want to know more.)

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#51160: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:38:24 PM

Ennis also had some great work on Hellblazer. One of the most classic stories of Hellblazer, if not the most classic, Dangerous Habits (a.k.a that one Constantine gets lung cancer) is by his hand.

He also seems at home with the Punisher, and as long as other heroes don't wander into the plot, he can stay decent. Welcome Back, Frank in specific is pretty great.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
FoxBoxKid Philosophy Enthusiast from California Republic Since: Oct, 2013
Philosophy Enthusiast
#51161: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:40:40 PM

The only thing I've read by Garth Ennis aside from the aforementioned issue of Hitman is Preacher, and I loved that.

Make mine Marvel.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51162: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:40:52 PM

God, The Slavers is so goddamn depressing, but it's a great story.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#51163: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:45:18 PM

Best Punisher story ever.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#51164: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:52:24 PM

From what I'm gathering, he just needs to be in his element. The Ghost Rider story I read (Road to Damnation, for the curious) was very bleak, but it felt like something that fit that character.

Speaking of which, I'd love to get a Ghost Rider adaptation from Marvel but it's kind of left in a weird place because it'd be more at home with Netflix and the similarly bleak lineup, but he's just too expensive a character for a TV budget.

edited 9th Feb '16 2:54:04 PM by wehrmacht

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51165: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:53:54 PM

Just so people know: usually Frank Castle goes after mobsters or people who are worse than him (which is how you can root for him, even though he kills a lot of people). In The Slavers, he goes after a sex slavery ring and at one point the narration goes: "It was in that moment that I realized something. A dull, blurred feeling that I’d had since this whole mess began, all of a sudden crystal clear. It had been a long, long time since I hated anyone the way I hated them."

It also helps that Ennis never posed Castle's crusade as anything other than simple hatred and revenge. He wasn't trying to help people. He just hated the people he killed.

edited 9th Feb '16 2:55:10 PM by alliterator

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#51167: Feb 9th 2016 at 3:17:20 PM

I wouldn't even say hatred, necessarily. As he mentioned in the quoted text, what set the Slavers apart is the fact that they actually inspired such an emotion from him. Most of his kills are cold and mechanical, slavishly following his crusade.

Being caught in the crossfire of a mob shootout, Castle's family were killed by random, violent crime and not any specific villain or cartel. In response, he declared war on the abstract concept of random, violent crime. His entire life is lived on autopilot, his soldier identity pursuing the next set of enemy combatants.

The biggest misstep I would say Ennis made was giving Castle a sexual partner - a mistake repeated in a much worse way in Daniel Way's Thunderbolts, where he was given an outright love interest. Given his character, I don't feel like Castle should really be capable of that anymore. He's too hollow.

edited 9th Feb '16 3:23:40 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51168: Feb 9th 2016 at 3:25:38 PM

To be clear: his entire family was killed in the crossfire between two mobster gangs. To keep from just going completely crazy (or perhaps that's what he did), he dedicated his life to killing criminals and mobsters and bad guys. This, as he said, "makes the world sane" for him. Except for some moments (like during the "Up is Down and Black is White" arc) when he has a dream about killing everyone and his family is lying there saying, "We're still dead, Frank."

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#51169: Feb 9th 2016 at 3:30:05 PM

I wonder what he must think as he watches Harry Osborn et al et al come back repeatedly.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#51170: Feb 9th 2016 at 3:30:23 PM

So anyone remember that part in Spider-Man 3 where Flint Marko first turns into the Sandman?

Anyone else think that was the best part of the film?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#51171: Feb 9th 2016 at 3:30:56 PM

Some stories raise the theory that Frank is just extremely blood thirsty and just used his family's murder and the whole thing of fighting crime as an excuse to have a everlasting war he could kill as many people as he pleased.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#51172: Feb 9th 2016 at 3:33:46 PM

[up][up]BY FAR.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#51173: Feb 9th 2016 at 3:34:52 PM

[up][up][up]I am hesitant to call it THE best part, but it was definitely one of the best and most iconic scenes of the movie.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#51174: Feb 9th 2016 at 3:35:16 PM

Speaking of Spider-Man, I'm not exactly looking forward to the reboot atm, but I do hope they finally make a strong movie adaptation of SM that I can get behind.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#51175: Feb 9th 2016 at 3:36:42 PM

[up]I take it you didn't like either of the two previous version?


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