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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#51126: Feb 9th 2016 at 11:37:20 AM

It often feels like the What Ifs end up with better and more uplifting endings than the main series ever does. Like the What If of Planet Hulk where the Hulk did land on the planet he was meant to be sent to and ends up cultivating the evolution of entire new species and civilizations on that world.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#51127: Feb 9th 2016 at 11:38:19 AM

[up]Like that, I miss ones like that.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51128: Feb 9th 2016 at 11:39:55 AM

That's just as unconstitutional as superheroes! >.< The military is not allowed to enforce laws.
In times of national emergency, yes they can. If a governor declares a State of Emergency, they can call in the National Guard to help them enforce the law. It basically suspends some Constitutional rights, which, ironically, is Consitutional (they are called "emergency powers"). See here. In fact, it even says, "Congress may authorize the government to call forth the militia to execute the laws, suppress an insurrection or repel an invasion."

edited 9th Feb '16 11:41:54 AM by alliterator

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#51129: Feb 9th 2016 at 11:45:24 AM

[up]x6 I get the impression that Marvel's Most Wanted might end up as an actual procedural.

Heck perhaps Mockingbird and co. end up operating under whatever version of the Sokovia Accords ends up in after the events of Civil War, rather then the current, legally tenuous, state of SHIELD.

edited 9th Feb '16 11:45:51 AM by Falrinn

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#51130: Feb 9th 2016 at 11:45:52 AM

I read Powers.

It was interesting but sorta bleak. Actually no sorta. It was just bleak. Practically every new volume is another hero dead, another new conspiracy, or a hero going off their rocker.

Thats the sort of thing you get in procedurals I guess but its very hard to binge.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#51131: Feb 9th 2016 at 11:46:44 AM

I missed What Ifs like the ones Civil War had. Nowadays, Marvel uses them to shut down fan critiques of their recent events by making everything a Downer Ending and going "Hah!".

It had one of those too. "What if Captain America won the Civil War?" Iron Man sacrifices himself to stop the stupid Thor Clonebot and the government overreacts to his death by mass-producing more Thor clones and declaring genocidal war on all superheroes forever. The message, I guess, is that it's a good thing the government side won 'cause Iron Man's the only thing standing between them and being the complete f*cking bastards that the X-Men kept trying to tell everyone that they are.

In times of national emergency, yes they can. If a state declare a State of Emergency, they can call in the National Guard to help them enforce the law. It basically suspends some Constitutional rights, which, ironically, is Consitutional. See here. In fact, it even says, "Congress may authorize the government to call forth the militia to execute the laws, suppress an insurrection or repel an invasion."

Militia, not military. These kinds of distinctions are important in U.S. law.

The National Guard is a volunteer reserve force of men and women who train as soldiers while also holding civilian jobs. They can be employed by the Army or Air Force if needed but until such a time, they remain as part of the U.S. militia.

There is no situation in which the Army and Air Force can legally put gun emplacements and pilot attack choppers around our cities hunting for criminals. That is wholly forbidden by U.S. law.

edited 9th Feb '16 11:51:11 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#51132: Feb 9th 2016 at 11:47:47 AM

I miss the old What If? collections, yeah. Gave better endings to a whole bunch of events.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51133: Feb 9th 2016 at 11:51:21 AM

Militia, not military. These kinds of distinctions are important in U.S. law.
Ahem, to quote Wikipedia again:
However, beginning as early as the late 20th century, some militias (particularly officially recognized and sanctioned militias of a government) act as professional forces, while still being "part-time" or "on-call" organizations. For instance, the members of some U.S. Army National Guard and Air National Guard units are considered professional soldiers and airmen, respectively, as they are trained to maintain, and do maintain, the same standards as their "full-time" (active duty) counterparts. Therefore, these professional militia men and women of the National Guard of the United States are colloquially known as "citizen-soldiers" or "citizen-airmen".
This is why I stated that the National Guard would be called in, even though the National Guard is military, it is still considered a "militia." The distinction between militia and military has also become very, very thin.

There is no situation in which the Army and Air Force can legally put gun emplacements and pilot attack choppers around our cities hunting for criminals. That is wholly forbidden by U.S. law.
I never said that the Army or Air Force would do that. The National Guard, however, could totally do that in a national emergency, since they also have helicopters and gun emplacements.

edited 9th Feb '16 11:53:36 AM by alliterator

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#51134: Feb 9th 2016 at 11:59:57 AM

The military hunting down and killing all superheroes or murdering them in their sleep would also, generally, be an awful story and what absolutely zero people read comics for.

I'll give Warren Ellis the benefit of the doubt on Black Summer since he's done good stuff but just as a concept it smacks of the worst kind of deconstruction.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
FoxBoxKid Philosophy Enthusiast from California Republic Since: Oct, 2013
Philosophy Enthusiast
#51135: Feb 9th 2016 at 12:28:15 PM

Even if the government decide to pass superhero regulations, it would pretty much be a symbolic gesture if they didn't have any superhumans in their employ. If a team of superhumans decided to take over the world to enforce peace there's not much anyone could do to stop them, as seen in Squadron Supreme.

Make mine Marvel.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#51136: Feb 9th 2016 at 12:32:30 PM

This may be where we get more international heroes coming into play then.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#51137: Feb 9th 2016 at 12:40:22 PM

This is why I stated that the National Guard would be called in, even though the National Guard is military, it is still considered a "militia." The distinction between militia and military has also become very, very thin.

Not thin at all. The National Guard operates under state authority, not federal. That's what makes them a militia. They're civilians who train as soldiers part-time in the event that the state needs its armed forces, such as in the event of an emergency. Congress cannot order the 54 individual National Guards to embark on a genocidal witchhunt.

edited 9th Feb '16 12:42:06 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51138: Feb 9th 2016 at 1:06:34 PM

Congress cannot order the 54 individual National Guards to embark on a genocidal witchhunt.
Probably not a "genocidal witchhunt," but Congress can call upon the National Guard. It's actually in the Constitution and is regulated on the federal level by the National Emergencies Act. Again: Congress can declare a state of national emergency and call upon the National Guard of each state.

I'll give Warren Ellis the benefit of the doubt on Black Summer since he's done good stuff but just as a concept it smacks of the worst kind of deconstruction.
If you read Black Summer, you'll see what happens.

edited 9th Feb '16 1:07:40 PM by alliterator

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#51139: Feb 9th 2016 at 1:10:27 PM

[up] Care to just say what happens?

Oh God! Natural light!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51140: Feb 9th 2016 at 1:17:14 PM

Okay, here goes: the only superhero team in Black Summer are the Seven Guns, people who have specialized cybernetic enhancements to give them powers. The one who killed the President was John Horus, the Superman of the team, while the main character of the book is Tom Noir, the Batman of the team. After John Horus kills the President (and all of his advisers), he tells the nation to elect a new President and that anyone coming after him will be killed.

Well, the government does come after him, but they have a secret: Frank Blacksmith, the creator of their implants, is on the side of the government and is helping to hunt them down. Also, Tom Noir wants to stop John Horus, while the rest of the Seven Guns just want to survive being killed by the government. Tom eventually kills John and Frank, while the Seven Guns manage to fight off the government until one of them dies and then they flee.

edited 9th Feb '16 1:17:28 PM by alliterator

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#51141: Feb 9th 2016 at 1:31:41 PM

I suppose its all in execution.

Edit: As it is, Noir is expy Batman and Horus is expy Superman so this is yet another Batman v Superman fight and geez if we're not always sitting in a pile of those.

Shrug.

edited 9th Feb '16 1:39:19 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51142: Feb 9th 2016 at 1:56:09 PM

I should have clarified: he's the Superman of the team, but he's not a Superman expy. He has powers similar to Superman (plus some Iron Man thrown in), but his personality is vastly different. I mean, he kills quite a lot of people.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#51143: Feb 9th 2016 at 1:57:02 PM

Probably still goes on the pile with Hyperion and that Injustice Superman that killed a bunch of people.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#51145: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:16:38 PM

Because that was a Superman who was always insane vs. his Lex Luthor that wanted to fuck him.

My various fanfics.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#51146: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:16:48 PM

I used to think I had a problem with Superman deconstructions after running into so many, but I really don't. My actually issue is when superpowered heroes are derailed to idolize or prop up the Badass Normal heroes.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#51147: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:19:30 PM

Garth Ennis is the worst about that.

My various fanfics.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#51148: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:21:35 PM

Haven't read Irredeemable so I can't comment on it.

If its good, then great!

No problem being on the Superman v Batman pile.

Squadron Supreme is somewhere near the bottom of that pile and people largely agree that its a classic (the classic Superman v Batman brought to you by Marvel)

Its all in the execution

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#51149: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:22:50 PM

[up][up]Tell me about it. I don't know if Garth Ennis is a particularly nice guy in real life or not, but when it comes to his writing, dude has issues regarding how he treats religion and superheroes.

edited 9th Feb '16 2:23:00 PM by Theokal3

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#51150: Feb 9th 2016 at 2:27:34 PM

I've only read two stories Ennis has written, both of them Ghost Rider.

I almost cut myself thanks to all the edge, but in all honesty I didn't think they were bad stories.


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