TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#51076: Feb 8th 2016 at 5:23:05 PM

Why should Spider-man be in any team? SOMEONE has to act like an adult....

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#51077: Feb 8th 2016 at 5:33:16 PM

I almost feel like finding the list of sides with tag lines people made for the original Civil War event due to hating the direction and not trusting any of the main "heroes".

I remember Team Nova("The one ACTUALLY protecting Earth" or something like that), Team Hulk("You're ALL fucked when Hulk gets back"), Team Duck("I'm with Howard") etc.

edited 8th Feb '16 6:01:14 PM by LordofLore

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#51078: Feb 8th 2016 at 5:39:14 PM

What about team X-men?

"This is literally what half our plotlines have been since the beginning, except now registration is good instead of evil"

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#51079: Feb 8th 2016 at 5:41:19 PM

I thought the whole thing was hilarious so I made a Team Broly parody banner way back when.

edited 8th Feb '16 5:41:33 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#51080: Feb 8th 2016 at 5:51:58 PM

Well, that's the reason I am glad that the X-men are not in the MCU.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#51081: Feb 8th 2016 at 5:52:53 PM

[up]What does that have to do with the lack of mutants in the MCU?

edited 8th Feb '16 5:53:04 PM by VeryMelon

dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#51082: Feb 8th 2016 at 6:05:55 PM

Something that bothers me is that in the comics, would have us believe that Iron Man is a "hero" with a point, but he is actually the Big Bad. (Negative Zone Prison)

While in the movies, the pro-registration "heroes" are probably the pawns of Zemo and Martin Freeman.

Worst of all, is that while they fight each other, there will be an inhuman with intent on destroying / conquer the world.

The true heroes in this conflict, will be Coulson and his team. (In the comics, was Ghost Rider)

edited 8th Feb '16 6:09:49 PM by dantecito

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#51083: Feb 8th 2016 at 6:08:29 PM

[up][up]Because then registration of superhumans would've already been done by them and Civil War would feel like old hat.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#51085: Feb 8th 2016 at 7:05:12 PM

The true heroes in this conflict, will be Coulson and his team.

Who?

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#51086: Feb 8th 2016 at 7:18:45 PM

I figure the line wasn't included because: 1. Thor has never said "thee" or "thou" in any of his movies, so it would seem weird that his speech suddenly got so formal. 2. Judging by the very last (non-stinger) line of Ao U, Whedon might've thought of adding it as pandering

I doubt that was the reason, given that they could easily just have had Thor say "you" instead of "thee."

edited 8th Feb '16 7:49:14 PM by KnownUnknown

dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#51087: Feb 8th 2016 at 7:29:12 PM

[up][up]I am aware that Coulson does not appear in the movie.

I what I meant is that, while the avengers fight each other, Coulson is saving the world.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#51088: Feb 8th 2016 at 8:05:31 PM

Its funny but the reason why Tony was such an obvious fascist in the original Civil War event was because Mark Millar thought Tony's side was obviously right. But so there'd be some moral ambiguity between the two sides he had Tony kick a lot of puppies.

"There. Now that Tony has an extradimensional Guantanamo both sides look equally right."

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#51089: Feb 8th 2016 at 8:07:01 PM
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#51090: Feb 8th 2016 at 8:22:31 PM

Judging from some of his other works, Mark Millar has not so buried fascist tendencies of his own.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#51091: Feb 8th 2016 at 8:39:19 PM

I don't think he's a fascist, I think he just really hates Americans. He said he wrote Iron Man as someone he thought American readers would identity with and root for, as this was in the post-9/11 era when there was still a huge debate about the patriot act and the overreach of government powers.

He basically thought the people who advocated stripping away civil rights and liberties to keep America safe were representative of America as a whole, which is why he was surprised that so many readers hated Iron Man.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#51092: Feb 8th 2016 at 8:43:15 PM

Kingsman though is set in Britain.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#51093: Feb 8th 2016 at 8:56:34 PM

[up][up]Wasn't there a huge shitstorm about that?

Isn't there STILL a huge shitstorm about that?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51094: Feb 8th 2016 at 10:34:00 PM

Kingsman though is set in Britain.
What fascist stuff was there in Kingsman? I haven't read the comic, only saw the movie, but the movie stuff didn't seem fascist at all.

Mark Millar is strange. He has written great things — he wrote a bunch of stories for Superman Adventures (which was the comic book based on Superman: The Animated Series) which were really good and he co-write The Flash along with Grant Morrison for two fantastic arcs, but when he went over to Marvel, he began deconstructing stuff, which wasn't really his strong suit. The Ultimates was great with widescreen action, but the character stuff was over the top. His Fantastic Four introduced the most ridiculous villain imaginable (the Marquis of Death, who was supposed to be more evil than Doctor Doom) and Civil War was just misstep after misstep.

After going to Image and writing his own books, he's actually improved. When he stays away from deconstructing and instead just writes actual characters instead of cardboard cut-outs, he gets good. Read stuff like Starlight and Huck.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#51095: Feb 8th 2016 at 11:03:33 PM

As opposed to Nemesis. tongue

But yeah, it's odd how Millar will write some of the most over the top grimdark nightmares, and yet his Superman comics like "For the Animals" are surprisingly idealistic and kind.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#51096: Feb 8th 2016 at 11:04:53 PM

Oh yeah. Huck is like the diametric opposite of Kick-Ass.

DrFurball Since: Jan, 2001
#51097: Feb 8th 2016 at 11:11:58 PM

Backtracking a bit to the Civil War slogans in the comics, my favorite was always "I'm With Stupid" in regards to Cable And Deadpool. As well as Nextwave's "We don't care".

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#51098: Feb 9th 2016 at 7:26:00 AM

Millar having Tony kick a bunch of puppies on the assumption that everyone would have immediately sided with Pro-Registration has never sat right with me. It's not even just the Privacy versus Security issue that makes it a bad choice.

Millar assumed that audiences wouldn't immediately sympathize with Captain America and, later, Spider-Man on basic principle. These guys are the moral center of the Marvel Universe. Even if you don't have a very strong opinion on the topic at hand, you can pretty much bank on the fact that if Captain America and Spider-Man say something is right and just, it is.

Millar also assumed that audiences wouldn't immediately side with the group that represents everything that superhero comics embody. Puppy-kicking aside, the Pro-Registration side was all about turning superheroes into licensed police officers. Which is great from an in-universe perspective but it's not what the last several decades of superhero comics have been about.

Superhero comics are escapist fantasies about larger-than-life figures whose amazing powers and pronounced moral compasses set them above the law. Superheroes have always been legally dubious concepts, but the genre has also always been content to ignore that or, when it is brought up, unambiguously portray the legitimate authorities as worthless, bumbling clods constantly shown up by the superhero's abilities to prove that the hero's extralegal activities are needed.

The basic premise of the Pro-Registration side is that all of your favorite superheroes are criminal vigilantes and would need a massive overhaul in how things are done in order to function cohesively with legitimate authority. And that's true. But it's not what superhero readers want to read about, it's not what superhero writers want to write about, and Millar was a fool for assuming that everyone on both sides would be eager to just throw out all the Necessary Weasels that make up the genre.

No, if anyone needed to be kicking puppies to balance things out, it's the Anti-Reg side. Being led by Captain Motherf*cking America and embodying everything that superhero fans love about the genre makes them instantly sympathetic.

edited 9th Feb '16 7:29:25 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
yellowturtle from Nowhere Important Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#51100: Feb 9th 2016 at 7:46:15 AM

Honestly, this all depends on how the registration is shaped. Putting the power over the superheroes in other hands (figuratively speaking) is not necessarily a good thing if said hands are not trust-worthy. In addition, there are some really good reasons for secrets identities. Even revealing them to some sort of governing body can have certain risks.

In addition, it also largely depends on what the Superheroes in question are actually doing. The Avengers aren't a police force, they are more a group of soldiers who defend the world from attackers. Spider-man doesn't swing around because he wants to beat up someone, he acts in the defence of people. There is actually nothing illegal about what Spider-man does.

But then there are heroes like Daredevil or the Punisher, who are not above beating people up and basically doing what the police is not allowed to do. They are actually acting against the law. But, well, in their case the police would first need a witness that they did so and then they can try to arrest them aso.

My basic point is: While I am usually of the firm opinion that "normal people" have to business to act like the police, you could easily find a middle ground for Superheroes by laying down some ground rules what they are allowed to do and what not. And if they don't follow the law, well, then they have to answer to a judge like everyone else. But registering them before they actually did something questionable would be like, well, collecting DNA-samples of every citizen in the country just in case that they brake the law at one point down the line. It just doesn't sit right with me. It goes way too much in the direction of Big Brother.

Or, in other words: We can asks who watches the Watcher, but we should also asks who watches the one who watches the watcher.


Total posts: 186,763
Top