TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#50951: Feb 7th 2016 at 9:12:29 AM

[up]The problem isn't that she isn't badass enough, she is; it's the fact that her personnality is much more generic, and she is made a classic Waif-Fu character rather than the juggernaut-like warrior she was in the comic. Honestly she is essentially made too Black-Widowish fighting-style wise.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#50952: Feb 7th 2016 at 9:12:40 AM

Drax is on par with Hulk in the comics, isn't he?

edited 7th Feb '16 9:12:53 AM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#50953: Feb 7th 2016 at 9:16:54 AM

Darx isn't on par with the Hulk. He's actually half of Hulk's normal strength.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#50954: Feb 7th 2016 at 9:19:32 AM

Pre-Bendis!Drax was powerful enough to take out a army of bugs with a normal knife or two after staying on a planet while the rest of the resistance left, hijack one of the bugs last surviving ships, get into the main base of the bugs in another part of the galaxy while killing everyone he came across and then takes out Thanos by ripping his heart out. He doesn't have Hulk's durability or pure power any longer but he sure as hell has his killing potential(The Destroyer isn't just a nickname) and can actually make Thanos scared. Plus he's actually smart and has very deep thoughts and views on things.

Before he got slimmed down(he died before the Cosmic Marvel era and was reborn)he and Hulk actually take on Thanos together during Infinity Gauntlet and are treated like equal threats(Drax is much dumber in this larger form but can fly and stuff).

edited 7th Feb '16 9:40:19 AM by LordofLore

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#50955: Feb 7th 2016 at 9:20:58 AM

And he's still downgraded in the film to being curb-stomped by Ronan.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50956: Feb 7th 2016 at 9:27:58 AM

The difference is that comics Drax was specifically designed to kill Thanos, while movie Drax wasn't. It's a consequence of changing the backstory: in the comics, Drax was Arthur Douglas, a human who had the unfortunate luck to witness Thanos land on Earth and so was killed by him, but an Eternal named Kronos saw this and, needing someone to kill Thanos, took Arthur Douglas's soul and placed it within a body designed specifically to fight Thanos.

That's also why Drax's powers seem to fluctuate. In the beginning, he had enhanced strength, flight, and the ability to shoot energy from his hands. And then when Thanos was resurrected, Kronos gave him more power, which eventually resulted in him turning into a kind of "space Hulk." Eventually, right before Annihilation, Drax died and was then reborn smaller and smarter. It was in this body that he was able to one-shot Thanos and rip out his heart.

edited 7th Feb '16 9:28:20 AM by alliterator

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#50957: Feb 7th 2016 at 9:30:44 AM

I guess that explains why he talks in Hulk Speak in the Infinity Gauntlet.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#50958: Feb 7th 2016 at 9:38:52 AM

[up]*7: If the perceived issue is actually that her personality is different, then the claim shouldn't be that she has Informed Ability - because that's not true at all.

With her that gets exaggerated a lot, with people going "she's not like she is in the comics" -> "she's a Faux Action Girl who doesn't accomplish anything" even though that's not how she is in the movie at all - or, less harshly, as though not being like her comics incarnation makes her an inherently inferior character by default. When people do that, it's like if she's not mowing down entire armies and bathing in their blood she's she's not doing anything at all.

It makes me worry for future adaptations, especially of female characters.

edited 7th Feb '16 10:19:06 AM by KnownUnknown

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#50959: Feb 7th 2016 at 10:11:27 AM

Here's a thing about how the movie treats Gamora that I just realized.

So, Gamora's got a reputation, right? She's the right hand man to one of the most dangerous omnicidal maniacs in the galaxy. She is, at least by proxy, responsible for god knows how many atrocities. Right at this very moment, she's working for a guy who's end goal is to annihilate an entire planet.

And Drax also has a reputation. The most we hear about it, though, is that Drax has "slayed dozens of Ronan's minions".

Gamora is treated with active hatred, loathing, threats. She gets moments away from getting murdered by a buncha inmates who, interestingly, have no reason beyond her word (and why would they trust that) that she wouldn't just fucking slaughter the lot of them. Drax, meanwhile, is treated as someone to be cowed by, a legitimate danger to be avoided at all costs.

That doesn't seem weird to anyone else?

edited 7th Feb '16 10:12:22 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#50960: Feb 7th 2016 at 10:12:03 AM

[up][up]I agree.

I admit that in all the shuffle with the different characters, Gamora is the one who gets the most short-shifted, but that is mostly because her story is not an easy one to tell. As a result, a lot of what happening related to her in Got G is set-up for the sequel which, I expect, will delve deeper into her relationship with Nebula and into Thanos. But not for a second I doubted the Gamora is crazy competent in what she does.

[up] Not surprising - a lot of people would perceive Gamora's power as coming from Thanos, underestimating how powerful she is in her own right. Plus, revenge. None of the inmates have necessarily a reason to take revenge on Drax, since they are apparently not Ronan's minions, but they have good reasons to hate Gamora.

edited 7th Feb '16 10:14:29 AM by Swanpride

dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#50961: Feb 7th 2016 at 11:16:21 AM

[up][up][up][up]It is noteworthy that:

Ronan >>> The Other >>> Loki >>> Captain America

Some aspect annoying of personality of Gamora is the fact that complained that Star Lord had no honor, even though she was subordinate of a genocide. (Hypocrite)

Speaking of her level of fight, I think she's stronger than Black Widow and Jessica Jones, but weaker than Sif and Lorelei.

edited 7th Feb '16 11:19:19 AM by dantecito

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50962: Feb 7th 2016 at 11:19:29 AM

Some aspect annoying of personality of Gamora is the fact that complained that Star Lord had no honor, even though she was subordinate of a genocide. (Hypocrite)
"Honor" and "goodness" are two different things, though. You can have honor and be evil. Just look at Lawful Evil characters.

dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#50963: Feb 7th 2016 at 11:22:17 AM

If but for the horrible things she has done, isn't in conditions as for judge others.

edited 7th Feb '16 11:22:43 AM by dantecito

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50964: Feb 7th 2016 at 11:26:35 AM

Again: doing bad things is not the same thing as having no honor. As well, Gamora was forced into doing those things since Thanos raised her as one of his daughters — and once she was able to rebel, she did.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#50965: Feb 7th 2016 at 11:27:47 AM

Not surprising - a lot of people would perceive Gamora's power as coming from Thanos, underestimating how powerful she is in her own right. Plus, revenge. None of the inmates have necessarily a reason to take revenge on Drax, since they are apparently not Ronan's minions, but they have good reasons to hate Gamora.
Yeah, no, I'm not saying folks should've been lining up to kick Drax's ass, just that, you know, the fact that they were lining up to kick Gamora's ass rather than just quietly seething at her...

I mean, even if they do think Gamora's power comes from Thanos, why would they think she's weak enough that they can beat her in a fight? Does it occur to no one that maybe Thanos keeps her around for a reason? I'm not saying they should think she's god-tier with Thanos, but you know, if the movie wanted to establish her as a badass, on par with the rest of the team—and mind, she's the only one besides Quill who doesn't intimidate anyone during the prison bits...

The movie goes out of its own damn way to damsel her, is what I'm getting at. And moreover, it does it for a longer, more drawn-out period of time than it does with Quill, who not only immediately gets rescued by Rocket but later rescues Gamora from Drax. The prison bits are there in part to establish character, and the movie decides here it's important that Gamora is so unintimidating that that tiny rat-face guy is confident he can kick her ass.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#50966: Feb 7th 2016 at 11:39:44 AM

Generally speaking I still think Starlord, Rocket Raccoon, and Groot were the best adapted from the comics.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#50967: Feb 7th 2016 at 12:58:40 PM

[up][up]

I got the impression that she was holding back, to be honest.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#50968: Feb 7th 2016 at 1:06:47 PM

But again, what reason do her assailants have to think she would do that? I'm not saying Gamora should've fought her way out of this situation, what I'm saying is that for her to be in this situation to begin with requires most of the other characters and, by extension, the audience, to believe she's not especially badass.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50969: Feb 7th 2016 at 1:13:17 PM

They underestimated her. I mean, I don't want to think about how sexism is still a thing in outer space, but sexism is probably still a thing in outer space.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#50970: Feb 7th 2016 at 1:13:59 PM

Because prisoners are stupid. They underestimate Starlord, Rocket and Groot as well until the latter two make a big speech.

People avoid Drax because, as the movie shows, he makes an effort to throw his reputation's weight around, threatening and menacing people everywhere, even with just Death Glare after Death Glare. Gamora, as per being The Atoner, never really makes an effort to threaten anyone and just sits on quietly, looking sad.

Drax also seems to be there longer. He's had time to prove his bite matches his bark, which Gamora hasn't.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#50971: Feb 7th 2016 at 1:22:21 PM

Man, I don't—I really, honestly don't care if folks can get it to work in-universe. I care about what, exactly, that scene is doing for the way the audience perceives the characters. Why, exactly, it was necessary for us to have a scene where Gamora's in mortal peril from a bunch of tiny assholes, and then Quill talks Drax out of killing her while folks cower around him.

edited 7th Feb '16 1:23:17 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50972: Feb 7th 2016 at 1:25:29 PM

She wasn't in any danger from them, though. From the way that she took Drax's knife and threatened to kill them all and then dropped it, it was clear that she could've gotten away from them, but didn't care enough.

It's only when Drax picks up the knife to try and kill her again when she's actually in danger, because she didn't want to kill him.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#50973: Feb 7th 2016 at 1:39:14 PM

Besides that [up], the scene's purpose was multi-use. It served to establish Quill's skills at smooth-talking situations (which he didn't have chances to use in previous scenes), it established Drax as a foreboding badass with no grasp of metaphors and it established Gamora was The Atoner, which no previous scene portrayed.

Dropping the knife served to specifically point out howdecent she is.

edited 7th Feb '16 1:39:55 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#50974: Feb 7th 2016 at 1:43:11 PM

The point was to show off their different skill sets. Gamora is quite a badass and was at least able to manipulate Ronan to a certain degree, but she is NOT good in talking herself out of a fix or read people particularly well. The whole scene was mostly about showing what Peter actually adds to the team because, let's be honest, as a fighter he is quite a light-weight compared to the others. Not to mention that they are really bad criminals while he is a guy who seduced a duchess one.

edited 7th Feb '16 1:43:58 PM by Swanpride

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#50975: Feb 7th 2016 at 1:46:53 PM

So, okay. The scene establishes she's compassionate, and that she's not good at talking herself out of situations.

What scene, exactly, demonstrates her actual skills? Because, I mean, she doesn't come out of the initial Let's You and Him Fight especially well, and then—apart from some prison guard mooks—she doesn't actually have another fight scene until Nebula at the end.

edited 7th Feb '16 1:47:10 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.

Total posts: 186,763
Top