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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#50501: Jan 29th 2016 at 7:52:22 PM

Don't know if this has been posted yet. Skimmed the last five pages and didn't see it.

Papa Star Lord has been cast. His identity is yet secret, all we know is that it's not the same guy as from the comics.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#50502: Jan 29th 2016 at 8:02:07 PM

He also told us that Marvel hasn’t given him any budgetary restrictions, which is certainly pleasing to hear.

James Gunn: As I’ve said a million times before Marvel hasn’t given me a single non-budgetary restriction on Vol. 2.
YAY PROOFREADING

edited 29th Jan '16 8:02:32 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#50503: Jan 29th 2016 at 8:10:08 PM

Ah, good. I was hoping I wasn't the only one supremely bothered by that typo.

dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#50504: Jan 29th 2016 at 8:11:44 PM

How expensive would be the special effects for the powers of Cloak and Dagger?

  • If it's cheap, a serie is a good idea.

edited 29th Jan '16 8:12:06 PM by dantecito

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#50505: Jan 29th 2016 at 8:12:46 PM

Also, to clarify an earlier comment, irrelevant to current stuff: Marvel putting a minority in charge of a thing traditionally means a minority will also be starring in that thing. Agent Carter's got female showrunners, Jessica Jones had a female showrunner, Luke Cage has a black showrunner, Black Panther is gonna have a black director, Captain Marvel is gonna have a female director.

Marvel put a white dude in charge of Iron Fist.

Danny Rand's probably gonna be white.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#50506: Jan 29th 2016 at 8:13:16 PM

'Non' is a very important prefix to remember.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50507: Jan 29th 2016 at 8:58:22 PM

Marvel put a white dude in charge of Iron Fist. Danny Rand's probably gonna be white.
Hey, hey, hey, we don't know that! There's a first time for everything! Don't be bringing everybody down without any actual proof!

I mean, I know, probability-wise, yes, he will be white. But still! He could be non-white!

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#50508: Jan 29th 2016 at 9:06:43 PM

He could still be mixed race.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#50509: Jan 29th 2016 at 9:17:01 PM

Honestly, I, er...

I mean, I don't want him to be white, necessarily? But, like, when I say Marvel likes their minorities to match, that's not necessarily a knock on them. I don't think a dude could've given us Jessica Jones, or Agent Carter the TV show (yes, yes, Markus and McFeely have their names on it, but it's really Tara Butters and Michele Fazekas running things.)

It sets a bad precedent, like, if you're a minority, and you're not a woman, or black, any ol' white guy can write your experiences, why not.

edited 29th Jan '16 9:17:17 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50510: Jan 29th 2016 at 9:19:42 PM

Uh, well, I mean, Into the Badlands was created by Alfred Gough and Miles Millar, two white guys. That wasn't a Marvel project, but still: it's possible.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#50511: Jan 29th 2016 at 9:21:23 PM

Is Into the Badlands any good, though? I've not watched it.

(Wait, what am I saying, it's Mark Millar, of course it's terrible) (That says Miles Millar, damn you reading comprehension)

I just feel like, if Danny Rand's gonna be written as non-white—especially given the Netflix series' established focus on social issues—it should be written by someone with firsthand experience with those issues.

edited 29th Jan '16 9:24:24 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#50512: Jan 29th 2016 at 9:24:49 PM

Unless someone's race is a huge part of their character, I really don't think who's in charge makes any difference. Seems more of a synergistic move to make the illusion of being in touch with things than anything else. Not to say that the people in charge of Agent Carter or Jessica Jones or any other show aren't in touch, because they absolutely are, just that being of the same gender/race doesn't necessarily mean anything if the issues that are associated with plaguing that particular group of people aren't heavily addressed in the work anyways.

Like, in Iron Fist's case, assuming they made him black or Hispanic to avoid the Mighty Whitey implications and the Asian martial artist implications, his race would likely have no impact on his character beyond avoiding those implications, since he's presumably still from New York but spent a lot of time in Kun'Lun. In which case the gender or race of the showrunner is more or less irrelevant to making the character work.

edited 29th Jan '16 9:26:36 PM by Khfan429

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#50513: Jan 29th 2016 at 9:26:49 PM

So anyone have an idea what Iron Fist is going to be about?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#50514: Jan 29th 2016 at 9:27:56 PM

[up][up]I could agree with you, but precedent with regards to the Netflix series says otherwise.

Matt Murdock's religion and blindness are both huge parts of his character. Jessica Jones is all about how women deal with male entitlement. Luke Cage is gonna have to deal with the fact that he's a wrongly imprisoned black man in a culture that's taking notice of race-based police brutality in a huge way.

If Danny Rand is something besides white, it's probably gonna be a focus point for the show.

edited 29th Jan '16 9:28:08 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#50515: Jan 29th 2016 at 9:32:42 PM

As far as I know, those things were already central to the characters though.

Not everything trying to be progressive has to suddenly make that progressivism front and center. If they want to engage in color-blind casting, there's literally nothing to suggest that they need to make a huge deal out of it within the story. Honestly, I find that a troubling implication all on its own.

Danny Rand already has a lot of things going for him in the comics. If they do Race Lift him, there's absolutely zero reason it needs to become a thing worthy of focus, because I'm sure they have enough material to work with from what already exists with the character that they don't have to add a race-based subplot that would only have the potential to exist if they decided they didn't want to deal with the Unfortunate Implications of the two more obvious choices.

edited 29th Jan '16 9:33:46 PM by Khfan429

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50516: Jan 29th 2016 at 9:33:43 PM

Is Into the Badlands any good, though? I've not watched it.
According to online reviews, the story itself is merely okay, but the fights are awesome. Rotten Tomatoes gives it a 53%, saying "Into the Badlands is loaded with off-kilter potential that's left largely unfulfilled — although its well-choreographed action sequences should satisfy martial arts fans."

So, uh, I guess it's kind of both good and bad?

Matt Murdock's religion and blindness are both huge parts of his character.
But neither Drew Goddard nor Steven DeKnight are blind or Catholic, I believe.

edited 29th Jan '16 9:34:01 PM by alliterator

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#50517: Jan 29th 2016 at 9:36:55 PM

Well. That's fair.

I mean.

Having someone who is blind, Catholic, or even both be in charge would've been nice. Not gonna deny that. But at least this isn't the first time Marvel's chosen to forgo behind-the-scenes representation when it was needed.

edited 29th Jan '16 9:38:04 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
czhang from Canada Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#50518: Jan 29th 2016 at 9:41:32 PM

The creators of Into The Badlands are white, but both they and Daniel Wu (one of the E Ps and also the lead actor) have talked about how closely they worked together to develop the show. The script is decent but the choreography and acting is fantastic.

That said, with Netflix's and Marvel's track records I absolutely expect Iron Fist to star a white dude.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#50519: Jan 29th 2016 at 9:48:56 PM

Non-Marvel Netflix has been pretty good at diversity, I thought? Orange is the New Black? Master of None? Grace and Frankie? Sense 8?

edited 29th Jan '16 9:49:30 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
czhang from Canada Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#50520: Jan 29th 2016 at 10:03:20 PM

Other than Master of None, which was created by Asian-Americans, not really. OITNB does a good job with its black and Latina characters but it treats its Asian characters really shittily (an episode called Ching Chang Chong, really?). Sense8 is just racist in general. I haven't seen Grace and Frankie so I can't comment on it.

FoxBoxKid Philosophy Enthusiast from California Republic Since: Oct, 2013
Philosophy Enthusiast
#50521: Jan 29th 2016 at 11:50:14 PM

I think y'all are overthinking this whole Danny Rand's skin color thing.

Make mine Marvel.
Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#50523: Jan 30th 2016 at 2:09:38 AM

@What Iron Fist will be about: We don't know yet but there were rumors about it pulling from Fraction's run.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#50524: Jan 30th 2016 at 3:27:07 AM

The director for the next Thor movie is this dude with the Name I can't remember - in any case, Thor is still a white dude. Yes, Marvel does try to match the ethnicity of director and certain properties, but I think that is more about fan-management than anything else. Black Panther and Captain Marvel could become controversial movies, it is better to avoid the old "well, why did they give the property some white guy" controversy. Iron Fist is not half as explosive.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#50525: Jan 30th 2016 at 4:33:11 AM

Taika Waititi. Anyway The Winter Soldier was going to be directed by a black man until he dropped out due to prior commitments, and Thor 2 was going to be directed by a woman until Executive Meddling caused her to leave. And for a Danny Rand who's neither white nor Asian to have a special subplot that brings attention to his race (and not in the context of him being an outsider to Kun-Lun) goes against the whole point of color-blind casting IMO.

Anyway, how do they choose test screening audiences? The fact that Civil War seems to be doing well like The Winter Soldier did is a good sign, but IIRC a lot of the more controversial plot choices in AOU were made based on test screening.

edited 30th Jan '16 6:51:38 AM by AlleyOop


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