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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#50026: Jan 22nd 2016 at 6:12:02 PM

I think the MCU has made it pretty clear that Cap's flaw is his Blood Knight tendencies. Thor doesn't seem to have that problem. If he brought peace to the Nine Realms he'd be perfectly fine sitting in Asgard and ruling. Cap on the other hand would never be satisfied with just settling down. He'd immediately start looking for another person to punch. That's why he couldn't lift the hammer.

edited 22nd Jan '16 6:12:31 PM by Kostya

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#50027: Jan 22nd 2016 at 6:17:56 PM

Really? I thought Living!Old!Loki was explicitly The-Loki-Who-Burned who became a god of evil and assembled the Avengers all those years ago.

So is Living!Old!Loki Ghost!Old!Loki's future then? That surprises me. Wait, so Frigga got him so she could know the future, that vision of Thor as king wasn't a Vision, it was a memory?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#50028: Jan 22nd 2016 at 6:21:19 PM

Ow, my brain.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#50029: Jan 22nd 2016 at 7:09:04 PM

[up][up][up]nope, capitán main flaw is that he define himself as a soldier, his wanda-induce alucination suport this.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50030: Jan 22nd 2016 at 7:55:04 PM

I really don't get how in the 616 you simultaneously had old Loki's ghost possessing Kid Loki, but also had living!old Loki as an antagonist. Was it just a timetravel paradox allowing there to be two?
Okay, it went down like this:

In Siege, Loki died and then Thor brought him back as a kid without any memories of who he was. This, then, was Kid Loki. However, Old Loki had left behind a copy of all his memories and personality in the form of an illusionary raven (which Kid Loki called "Ikol") and eventually Kid Loki had to allow his personality to be overwritten by this copy of Old Loki. This wasn't, of course, the real Old Loki, who was dead, it was just a copy. This, then, became the New Kid Loki, who eventually became Teen Loki.

Now, then, Teen Loki eventually realized that he didn't want to be evil, so he decided to work for the All-Mothers — for each job he did for them, they would erase one of the stories of Old Loki. However, "King Loki" arrived from the future and was revealed to be the real Agent of Asgard, as Freya realized that a future where Loki was evil, but Thor was king was preferable to one where the future was uncertain. King Loki turned out to be the older version of Teen Loki after he had finished his duty with the All-Mother - however, everyone still knew him as the God of Lies and no one trusted him, so eventually he went evil, killed the Earth, and became King Loki. He then went back in time, ostensibly in order to force his younger self to become King Loki sooner.

What he ended up doing, however, when forcing Teen Loki to choose between oblivion and King Loki, he in fact chose a third option: instead, he realized that stories were simply strings of lies, so they were reborn as Loki, God/Goddess of Stories (they tended to switch genders a lot). Story Loki then saved Asgard at the brink of Ragnarok, successfully bluffed They Who Sit Above in Shadow, saw that Secret Wars was going on, said, "Nah, let's skip it," and walked away with their best friend.

And that was Loki: Agent of Asgard.

edited 22nd Jan '16 7:56:28 PM by alliterator

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#50031: Jan 22nd 2016 at 8:01:58 PM

dang.

I should read that.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#50032: Jan 22nd 2016 at 8:26:47 PM

[up][up]That... sounds awesome.

[up]Ditto.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50033: Jan 22nd 2016 at 8:43:07 PM

You really should. Basically, start with Kieron Gillen's Journey Into Mystery (the Kid Loki stuff), then his Young Avengers (the New Kid/Teen Loki stuff), and then Al Ewing's Loki: Agent of Asgard (the rest). It's pretty awesome.

Jason Aaron is currently using the new Loki in Mighty Thor, but nobody's sure yet if he's evil or not. He could be evil or he could simply be tricking the other villains (which I hope is the case).

edited 22nd Jan '16 8:44:31 PM by alliterator

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#50034: Jan 22nd 2016 at 8:49:37 PM

I tried reading Gillen's Journey. It was...a LOT of time was spent rounding up a whole buncha different characters for a big thing and I just couldn't get into it.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50035: Jan 22nd 2016 at 8:51:25 PM

Yeah, it's slow at first. But as soon as it gets going, it gets really going. Plus, it's a lot of fun:

Thor: They have hammers, Volstagg. I have the hammer. That's my thing.

edited 22nd Jan '16 8:55:18 PM by alliterator

dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#50036: Jan 22nd 2016 at 8:55:36 PM

Something curious is that Axis Loki (Or inverted Loki) and Black Widow, can lift the Mjolnir.

  • But Axis Loki is of fact a Jerk to his friends Sigurd and Lorelei, and also is example of Henpecked Husband with his girlfriend Amora the Enchantress.
  • While Black Widow is an anti-heroic assassin.

Although these two cases are certainly examples of bad writing.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50037: Jan 22nd 2016 at 8:57:52 PM

They weren't, actually. The Axis Loki story was actually very good - he loses the ability to wield the hammer right away because everyone is de-inverted, but for one moment, he was able to hold the hammer and nobody believes him.

dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#50038: Jan 22nd 2016 at 8:59:54 PM

But axis/inverted Loki is a jerk.

edited 22nd Jan '16 9:01:14 PM by dantecito

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50039: Jan 22nd 2016 at 9:09:19 PM

So's Thor at times, but he can still wield the hammer.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#50040: Jan 23rd 2016 at 8:04:52 AM

Ah yes, I read Siege and the first four or five issues of Loki Agent of Asguard and although LAoA was incredibly well written and complex in a deeply satisfying way, I appreciated that I was missing some kind of context, so I didn't continue it. Now that I understand some ambiguities I'll certainly pick it up again.

Agent of Asguard has probably my favourite interaction with time travel I've ever encountered. Characters explicitly read their own stories and write their own backgrounds to create themselves. (not unlike the original mythology, which had this weird nature of all of time happening simultaneously) As with magic in the book, things can work is thematically they work. Which makes for a very cohesive approach and so much potential for gambits.

I'd certainly recommend it. The gender-fluid stuff is quite a boon too.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#50041: Jan 23rd 2016 at 9:10:24 AM

I just realized something:

If the Jarvis AI is based off of Edwin Jarvis, than the Friday AI from Age of Ultron is based off of his wife.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#50042: Jan 23rd 2016 at 9:14:44 AM

Is Friday voiced by the same lady?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50043: Jan 23rd 2016 at 9:15:36 AM

[up][up]Not...really. While both the JARVIS AI and Edwin Jarvis have British accents and are very deadpan, FRIDAY was voiced by Kerry Condon, who is Irish and uses her own Irish accent, and Ana Jarvis is played by Lotte Verbeek, who is Dutch and uses her own Dutch accent. Plus, if it was based on Ana, it probably would have been called ANA.

Probably, FRIDAY is just based on the "Girl Friday" trope.

edited 23rd Jan '16 9:16:32 AM by alliterator

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#50044: Jan 23rd 2016 at 9:18:09 AM

If anything Friday should be based on Pepper.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#50045: Jan 23rd 2016 at 9:19:14 AM

I thought Ana Jarvis had an Irish accent?

Well then, forget my theory then.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#50046: Jan 23rd 2016 at 9:21:29 AM

She's supposed to be Hungarian but the actress is Dutch.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#50047: Jan 23rd 2016 at 9:32:47 AM

I must have missed that detail.

Well speaking of Age of Ultron, I just rewatched part of it today. I think it was actually a bit better than when I first saw it. No masterpiece, but enjoyable.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
TenebrousGaze Dark Eye from A Shaded Face Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
Dark Eye
#50048: Jan 23rd 2016 at 9:37:44 AM

If she's meant to be like the comic Friday, she's just intended to be an ideal assistant rather than based on any particular person (although that obviously draws parallels to Pepper anyway). There was outright a PEPPER AI for a while in the comics.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50049: Jan 23rd 2016 at 9:38:39 AM

I just wonder if we're eventually going to see Jocasta - after all, we did a program with that name.

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#50050: Jan 23rd 2016 at 9:40:13 AM

The more I watch it and think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that it's an enjoyable movie and I have a lot of fun with it, but it's not particularly good. Like, most of the ideas are good on paper, but none of them are given the necessary time to develop.

I don't have much of a problem with Whedon as a director, but I wish he'd realized beforehand what a bad idea trying to make it shorter was. The Avengers was a lot of good things, but it still wasn't perfect when it came to juggling its characters. And to add more characters, try to give them each their own arcs, and not only tie together all the movies that came before but actively set up at least three future movies, all in less time? Doomed from the start.


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