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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#50001: Jan 22nd 2016 at 2:34:03 PM

That's a fair point, but it doesn't change that "plot reasons" aren't a good way to do anything.

And it also doesn't change that nothing about Jane indicates she's anything like Thor. Certainly not that she has any traits he does that Cap or Tony lack. tongue

edited 22nd Jan '16 2:34:24 PM by Khfan429

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#50002: Jan 22nd 2016 at 2:36:06 PM

Obviously worthiness is determined by who you think is Best Pony.

Odin, Thor and Jane all share the belief that Pinkie Pie is best pony. Ergo, Jane is worthy. Q.E.D.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#50003: Jan 22nd 2016 at 2:36:17 PM

I suppose one could argue that Thor is worthy by default (unless he screws up), since it is his hammer. But everyone else has to have special worthiness. I mean it was made for him and I think Tony's "fingerprint scanner" theory does get at how the worthiness standard is in part to avoid it being taken from/used against him.

IIRC, what makes Beta Ray Bill using the hammer shocking isn't just that he's a weird horse-headed alien, it's also that he's thor's enemy at the time, right?

Now that still doesn't explain why none of the Avengers could lift it, particularly Cap.

edited 22nd Jan '16 2:37:30 PM by Hodor2

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#50004: Jan 22nd 2016 at 2:37:00 PM

Thor had to become Worthy of the hammer, though. He explicitly doesn't get special exemption from the Worthiness clause.

edited 22nd Jan '16 2:37:18 PM by TobiasDrake

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#50005: Jan 22nd 2016 at 2:45:30 PM

I don't particularly want to see Jane-Thor anyways, i'm more or less with Very Melon on this one.

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#50006: Jan 22nd 2016 at 2:45:36 PM

Thor's hammer has a worthiness clause: Namely, if Thor is not worthy, he may not lift it. Anyone else just can't lift it no matter what. Because hammers are not good judges of worthiness, and it's absolutely no way to choose a king.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#50007: Jan 22nd 2016 at 2:47:38 PM

That doesn't fit with the phrasing.

"Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be Worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

The way it's worded implies that anyone can lift the Hammer so long as they possess the qualities of "Worthy", and will gain Thor's powers from doing so.

It's also one of the pieces of evidence that the elevator metaphor regarding Vision was accurate. Vision did not possess the powers of Thor from holding his hammer, and so the clause was not fulfilled.

edited 22nd Jan '16 2:48:40 PM by TobiasDrake

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
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#50008: Jan 22nd 2016 at 2:51:28 PM

I don't like that. It robs the scene where he picks it up of impact.

I prefer to think Vision didn't use the lightning powers because ELEC attacks are super effective against him.

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MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
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#50009: Jan 22nd 2016 at 2:56:14 PM

I'd be okay with Sif-Thor.

That'd be more awesome anyways .

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#50010: Jan 22nd 2016 at 2:56:58 PM

I think she's had less development than Jane.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#50011: Jan 22nd 2016 at 2:59:00 PM

She has. She's basically a one-dimensional Action Girl archetype.

I don't want Thor-Sif just because Sif is awesome enough as she is. She doesn't need Thor's powers. She just needs more opportunity to flex her characterization and establish herself.

edited 22nd Jan '16 2:59:19 PM by TobiasDrake

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AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#50012: Jan 22nd 2016 at 3:10:58 PM

Basically, although I think she's also in a better position to take over from Thor as the flagship of the Asgard sphere of the MCU than Jane. She just doesn't need Mjolnir to do it.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#50013: Jan 22nd 2016 at 3:22:51 PM

Maybe they reassemble the hammer in space, but find out someone else has been gathering pieces too. A weird horse-headed cyborg alien has half of the hammer and challenges Thor for his half...

I just want Beta Ray Bill. It would be just as contrived as, and require the plot to bend up its own arse just as much as, making Jane-Thor a thing in the movies right now. However, if we're talking about contrived arsebending plot twists, that's the one I want.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50014: Jan 22nd 2016 at 4:27:31 PM

Thor's hammer has a worthiness clause: Namely, if Thor is not worthy, he may not lift it. Anyone else just can't lift it no matter what.
Nope - anyone can lift the hammer "if they be worthy." That's the point. That's how in the comics, certain people are able to lift it (like Beta Ray Bill and Jane).

She really doesn't. It's a Thor movie, and since Thor in this universe is one single person, there's no reason Jane needs to continue being anything other than a supporting player.
Jane wasn't a supporting character in the first two Thor movies - she was, in fact, a main character in the first two Thor movies. The fact that you find her boring doesn't negate the fact that she is a main character and she should be in the third movie, especially since this is a chance to let her do something spectacular.

I mean, your argument against having Jane Thor basically boils down to "She's boring, she's not interesting, I don't like her." Which, if she is written well, won't be a problem.

edited 22nd Jan '16 4:28:03 PM by alliterator

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#50015: Jan 22nd 2016 at 4:30:17 PM

Nobody aside from Steve is morally worthy, and Steve can't lift it because he can't get drunk.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#50016: Jan 22nd 2016 at 4:37:35 PM

I think "if he be worthy" translates to "If Odin currently thinks you're cool"

I like the Reading that Steve couldn't pick it up because he was doing it as part of an extended joke. Got to treat the hammer with respect.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50017: Jan 22nd 2016 at 4:39:00 PM

I think "if he be worthy" translates to "If Odin currently thinks you're cool"
At least in the comics, the enchantment has grown past Odin's original magic, so much so that Mjolnir is practically alive at this point. Even Odin himself couldn't move the hammer - instead, it chose Jane.

Nothing like that has happened in the MCU, but it would be cool if it did.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#50018: Jan 22nd 2016 at 4:43:19 PM

Especially since Odin is dead/a hobo/a jerk in the MCU

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alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50019: Jan 22nd 2016 at 4:45:51 PM

I misread that and thought it said a dead hobo jerk. Which, really, would be awesome, too.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#50020: Jan 22nd 2016 at 4:56:09 PM

I mean, Odin is a jerk and the Worst Dad Ever™. But how would he be a jerk and a dead hobo at the same time?

edited 22nd Jan '16 5:01:08 PM by higherbrainpattern

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#50022: Jan 22nd 2016 at 5:00:01 PM

Well, he's a jerk and then he becomes a hobo and then, if he dies, he's a dead hobo jerk.

If he's in Jersey, he can also then be a dead hobo jerk in Hoboken.

edited 22nd Jan '16 5:00:25 PM by alliterator

dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#50023: Jan 22nd 2016 at 5:27:42 PM

I imagine what would happen if Jane Foster was turning in Thor-Girl (In the phase 4).

  • Sif: For a strange reason, this event incites me to allow that Loki's ghost possess my body.
  • Loki's Ghost: I had planned to take the body of my clone, but I'm flexible.
  • Kid Loki: Really?, that good news.

edited 22nd Jan '16 5:35:47 PM by dantecito

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#50024: Jan 22nd 2016 at 5:38:37 PM

I really don't get how in the 616 you simultaneously had old Loki's ghost possessing Kid Loki, but also had living!old Loki as an antagonist.

Was it just a timetravel paradox allowing there to be two?

dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#50025: Jan 22nd 2016 at 5:59:53 PM

It's pretty simple.

  • Old Loki = Future.
  • Young Loki = Present


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