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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

DrFurball Since: Jan, 2001
#49901: Jan 21st 2016 at 10:25:00 AM

Civil War was a complete mess, which is why I got nervous when I heard that the third Cap movie was going to be based on it. I think that Ben Grimm had the best idea: "Screw you guys, you're both stupid. I'm going to Paris. Never mind, I'm back because SOMEBODY'S gotta protect civilians while you guys are beating each other up."

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#49902: Jan 21st 2016 at 10:25:43 AM

Thankfully it looks like the movie has already changed some of the dumber plot points of the book.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#49903: Jan 21st 2016 at 10:28:14 AM

While (thankfully) they almost certainly won't introduce those elements, I keep thinking it would be funny for Tony to make a Breathless Non Sequitur about shooting Banner into space and/or cloning Thor.

edited 21st Jan '16 10:28:42 AM by Hodor2

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#49904: Jan 21st 2016 at 10:29:01 AM

Hopefully jerkass!Carol Danvers won't show up. It was so stupid how she pretty much went mad with(legal)power.

DrFurball Since: Jan, 2001
#49905: Jan 21st 2016 at 10:32:37 AM

Yeah, I think that by changing the nature of the conflict, and focusing more on Cap's side (and not being written by, like, a dozen writers with different ideas about the direction of the story), that it'll be a lot better than the comic.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#49906: Jan 21st 2016 at 10:35:51 AM

The only thing that bugs me about the nature of the conflict in the film is how the Accords seem to be based solely on the Avengers and their actions. I was hoping this would be the point where the movies expand the "world of superpowers" situation beyond just the main characters.

But since the plot that's being built out of it still looks amazing, I'm more or less over it.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#49907: Jan 21st 2016 at 10:45:24 AM

Its already massively improved by not having Mark Millar on the project.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
DrFurball Since: Jan, 2001
#49908: Jan 21st 2016 at 10:47:51 AM

And none of the film's writers have been comfirmed to lick goats, so that's reassuring.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#49909: Jan 21st 2016 at 10:50:04 AM

While (thankfully) they almost certainly won't introduce those elements, I keep thinking it would be funny for Tony to make a Breathless Non Sequitur about shooting Banner into space and/or cloning Thor.

I just realized that the Hulk is NOT going to be in this film but WILL be in Thor: Ragnarok.

They kind of did shoot him into space.

Hopefully jerkass!Carol Danvers won't show up. It was so stupid how she pretty much went mad with(legal)power.

And yet, hers was easily the best of the Pro-Reg books.

The only thing that bugs me about the nature of the conflict in the film is how the Accords seem to be based solely on the Avengers and their actions. I was hoping this would be the point where the movies expand the "world of superpowers" situation beyond just the main characters.

But since the plot that's being built out of it still looks amazing, I'm more or less over it.

That's basically the opposite complaint from the comic.

A common criticism of the comic's Civil War is that making it a blanket registration act for all Superhumans was a huge writing misstep that made the Pro-Reg side completely unconscionable. A Superhero Registration, serving as an oversight to superhero activities, would have worked better as an arguing point.

Which is effectively what the Accords are, if a little too specialized.

edited 21st Jan '16 10:50:42 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#49911: Jan 21st 2016 at 11:16:25 AM

Why should the accords only be based on the Avengers? They already hinted in Ant-man that more and more superpowered people are turning up. And in Ao S President Ellis even made a speech about this danger.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#49912: Jan 21st 2016 at 11:18:15 AM

Because the Avengers are the only ones invading other countries and stuff. The Avengers are basically the only superhero team in existence at the moment, so the government wants to get some controls into place.

I mean, this doesn't mean there won't be legislation about superhumans, but the Sokovia Accords are specifically about the Avengers, regulating when and where the Avengers can act.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#49913: Jan 21st 2016 at 11:18:48 AM

It seems that Avenger sign-up is mandatory while non-Avenger sign-up is just encouraged.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#49914: Jan 21st 2016 at 11:48:13 AM

The conflict in Civil War is basically about turning the Avengers into something official rather than private, like SHIELD was supposed to be, right when a situation pops up where Cap has to do make a To Be Lawful or Good choice that wouldn't have been a problem otherwise.

It's a "rein in the Cowboy Cops" plot. From what we've seen of the Accords, there's nothing in there about anyone who's not an Avenger.

It seems they're leaving the "superpowers or superheroes are becoming a thing in society, which governments are trying to react to" stuff to the tv shows.

edited 21st Jan '16 11:51:29 AM by KnownUnknown

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#49915: Jan 21st 2016 at 11:50:37 AM

Thus far, outside the Avengers, there's:

The first three are already covered by the law. Jessica and Luke haven't participated in overt public superheroics at this time. None of the above have, as noted, invaded a foreign country or built a murder robot or smashed a city.

edited 21st Jan '16 11:52:20 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#49916: Jan 21st 2016 at 11:51:50 AM

There's also the hundreds of American citizens getting superpowers, plus dozens more monthly, in Agents of SHIELD. AOS specifically portrays it as a major issue for media fearmongering and government over-response.

edited 21st Jan '16 11:53:19 AM by KnownUnknown

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#49917: Jan 21st 2016 at 11:52:14 AM

And then there's all the Inhumans popping up, but most of them were either taken by the ATCU, SHIELD, or killed by Lash.

[nja] Although I wouldn't say "hundreds." It's probably around "dozens."

edited 21st Jan '16 11:52:39 AM by alliterator

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#49918: Jan 21st 2016 at 11:52:44 AM

I don't think the Accords will come up in Agents.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#49919: Jan 21st 2016 at 11:53:01 AM

Yeah. We're already seeing the PR disaster of the Inhuman issue in the show.

On the kind of international scale that the films like to operate, the government shouldn't care about a person who has the ability to talk to fish or something unless that person is using fish to commit crimes. What they absolutely should care about is private citizens blowing up cities on both domestic and foreign soil.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#49920: Jan 21st 2016 at 11:54:13 AM

I don't think the Accords will come up in Agents.
Oh, no, the show will absolutely talk about the Accords (because the showrunners know what's going to happen before they write the episodes). Whether or not they will affect the show is different, since SHIELD is already an illegal organization.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#49921: Jan 21st 2016 at 11:54:33 AM

wild mass guessCivil War will reveal Falcon's tragic backstory; that he used to be a pimp.wild mass guess

stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#49922: Jan 21st 2016 at 11:55:45 AM

At the very least, an episode will end with "Tonight they're signing the Accords" and then we get a clip/trailer for the film before it released that weekend.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#49924: Jan 21st 2016 at 12:05:52 PM

In essence, the Accords are happening because the governments are getting tired of the rogue activity of the Avengers.

They care about Thor, not because he has a sweet hammer and can summon lightning, but because of that time when an alien warship crashed into London and the only answer anyone got was Thor shrugging his shoulders and going, "Eh, y'know, Svartalfheim!" and then flying off to bang his hot girlfriend.

They care about Iron Man, not because he built a neat suit of armor - although whether or not that should be classified as unlawful military hardware was certainly a point of contention in IM 2 - but because a private citizen keeps shooting missiles at foreign countries and building murder-robots.

They care about Captain America, not because he has a neat serum floating in his blood, but because he personally dismantled an international peacekeeping organization under his own self-proclaimed authority and then leaked shitloads of classified information to the web where anyone could find it. They actually court-martialed Widow over that.

The Accords aren't about what the Avengers are, but about the international community growing discontent with what they keep doing. They don't want the Avengers to not save the world, of course, but they want to be kept in the loop of what is happening and why - and maybe have a vote the next time Tony Stark wants to build Planet-Killotron 3.0 or Captain America decides the CIA should go.

edited 21st Jan '16 12:08:07 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#49925: Jan 21st 2016 at 12:13:58 PM

From what was released about the Accords it is indeed just about the Avengers or former Avengers (Hawkeye and Iron Man are listed).


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