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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#49801: Jan 20th 2016 at 9:47:55 AM

The vision is invincible due to having to face Thanos before his death.

Vision's finest hour.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#49802: Jan 20th 2016 at 9:50:07 AM

Yep.

He's lucky he won't be killed by Wanda going crazy.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#49804: Jan 20th 2016 at 1:29:58 PM

I think those same rumors have already been posted a few times in this thread.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#49806: Jan 20th 2016 at 1:39:13 PM

So, thinking back to a lot of the stuff I said last night, like. I am pissed about the fakeout, and I think it's definitely part of a larger trend, but I also wanna focus on the good stuff? Like. I wanted Agent Carter to show more female characters with more diverse experiences, and the show's definitely doing that. And I wanted the show to be less focused exclusively on one sort of oppression, and the show's doing that too. I loved Wilkes' little speech about how looking out over the city makes him feel important. And the bit where the shopkeeper asks Peggy if she's alright (though I think it's a bit odd she didn't seem to catch the implication.) I think the show is doing good work that's really not hindered as badly as I made it out to be last night.

edited 20th Jan '16 1:39:55 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#49807: Jan 20th 2016 at 1:40:31 PM

If it's just a fakeout and not an actual death, I don't see what's bad about it anyway. I mean, they are banking on the audience liking the character and not wanting to see them dead.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#49808: Jan 20th 2016 at 1:42:12 PM

I would be kind of shocked if anyone actually expects him to stay dead.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#49809: Jan 20th 2016 at 1:43:12 PM

Just heard Spider-Man is opening 3 weeks earlier than first announced.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#49810: Jan 20th 2016 at 1:43:28 PM

[up][up]I've read some recaps where they thought he was actually dead, but people who know that he's a regular think he's still alive. And people who know what happened to his comic counterpart.

[up]Yep, they had to shift some things around because Star Wars 8 isn't coming out until December 2017 now.

edited 20th Jan '16 1:44:04 PM by alliterator

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#49811: Jan 20th 2016 at 1:44:49 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]I don't think that it is odd. As I have explained multiple times during season 1, the black population in New York was very, very lot in this time period. In England, it was practically non-existent. Peggy's experience with this kind of stuff is mostly from her time with the Howling Commanders. In short, she is kind of aware that the problem exists, but that is not the same as seeing it life.

edited 20th Jan '16 1:45:21 PM by Swanpride

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#49812: Jan 20th 2016 at 1:45:59 PM

Rumor that Ego the Living Planet will be the villain of Guardians 2.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#49813: Jan 20th 2016 at 1:47:46 PM

Pat from the Best Friends Zaibatsu will not be happy to hear about that.

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#49815: Jan 20th 2016 at 1:48:32 PM

It might just be rumors at this point, but I'm really not looking forward to Thor 3. Not in the mood for another dull comedy after Ultron.

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#49816: Jan 20th 2016 at 1:48:41 PM

If it's just a fakeout and not an actual death, I don't see what's bad about it anyway. I mean, they are banking on the audience liking the character and not wanting to see them dead.

I mean, in my mind—if this is the trend I think it is—it's basically using black dudes as peril objects, stuff that the narrative can have bad shit happen to with no real, lasting consequence for the folks who matter. Black guys in Marvel TV shows get killed and almost-killed and become villains and get prolonged cases of mind-control and it's really just there to, at most, make the white folks upset.

I will give Agents of SHIELD the fact that Mac had angst after his period as a rage-demon, but in the moment it was happening, it was really distressing to have him as an animal the other characters had to debate whether to put down, with Tripp being disposed of roughly an episode later.

Cage goes almost the entirety of Jessica Jones without being victimized, but that's the state he's in when we leave him, and while Malcolm does get real focus following his victimization he's in that state (and comic-relief to boot!) for almost half the series. Clemons is disposed of like it's nothing.

Like, I would never claim Marvel TV on the whole is terrible to its black men, but there is, I think, unfortunate tendencies in the branch that need to be addressed, and while this stuff does happen to white folks, there's enough of them that there's also plenty who don't get used this way.

...dammit, I said I wanted to talk about the good stuff. Urg.

edited 20th Jan '16 1:51:52 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#49817: Jan 20th 2016 at 1:58:41 PM

Yeah, really, how dare them to give the black characters actual storylines in which they might end up in peril.

Let's forget the movies for a while and look at the TV shows. How many of them have a male white lead? So far, only one. Agent Carter and Jessica Jones has female leads, Luke Cage will have a black lead and Ao S is an ensemble show. If Ao S has something like a central character, it's Daisy and she is not only female but also half-Asian. And how many recurring black characters are there? Luke Cage (naturally), Malcolm, Mike Peterson, Triplet, Mack, Raina and Dr. Wilkes. (And Claire? I am actually not sure if she is considered Black or a Latina.....). How many of them are death? Only two, and I am still not sure if Raina's fate is permanent. And I guess that Luke Cage will shift them numbers even further.

Agent Carter is actually the "whitest" show of them, but it makes sense if you consider the setting.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#49818: Jan 20th 2016 at 2:01:18 PM

I think Claire would count as both black and Latina.

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#49819: Jan 20th 2016 at 2:04:22 PM

Yeah, really, how dare them to give the black characters actual storylines in which they might end up in peril.
It's not a might, though? They do, and it's often a sort of peril where they have no actual agency. The deaths or fake-deaths are never heroic sacrifices. They never get to save themselves from the mind control. When it comes to fighting the heroes it's really only Mac who's got any sort of choice, Mike and Andrew (and probably Wilkes, now) were fucked up by superscience. They're not stories about them, they're stories where bad shit happens and other folks have to deal with it.

edited 20th Jan '16 2:05:18 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#49820: Jan 20th 2016 at 2:06:33 PM

[up]Mike's storyarc was my favourite in season one after the Winter soldier tie in. Don't diss it. He is a fascinating character. Still hope that we see more of him this season.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#49821: Jan 20th 2016 at 2:08:08 PM

Agent Carter is actually the "whitest" show of them, but it makes sense if you consider the setting.

I wasn't aware that black people didn't exist in 1940s America aside from one or two people.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#49822: Jan 20th 2016 at 2:08:09 PM

[up][up]Mike is a great character, and I love him, but his story arc is almost entirely "something terrible happens to him, he disappears for a little bit, then he comes back and something worse happens to him."

I want to see him treated better. I want a story that's about him, the way the first episode was, rather than him incidentally getting shit on while helping the protagonists.

edited 20th Jan '16 2:08:22 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#49823: Jan 20th 2016 at 2:17:44 PM

[up][up]Well, the show is not set in the south, and the social circles Peggy usually has contact with wouldn't feature a high number of them.

[up] A lot of what happened to Mike is the result of his own ill-advised decisions. It's not like he was snatched of the street.

And in the case of Dr. Wilkes, this is actually the point. He was accepted by the company for one reason alone, because nobody would care if some black guy vanishes. Makes it easy to get rid of him down the line.

edited 20th Jan '16 2:20:27 PM by Swanpride

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#49824: Jan 20th 2016 at 2:19:27 PM

[up][up]I see your point, but then again, bad shit happens to almost every character. We see Coulson with his brain exposed, begging for death - that's as far away from "agency" as you can get - so I think having black characters in peril is pretty much par for the course of having, well, characters in peril.

But I do agree that we need more Mike Peterson. Perhaps a "day in the life" episode focusing on him?

edited 20th Jan '16 2:19:43 PM by alliterator

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#49825: Jan 20th 2016 at 2:22:13 PM

[up][up] Actually, there were a huge number of black people that migrated to numerous cities around the country during and after World War II.


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