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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#49676: Jan 18th 2016 at 11:03:34 PM

[up]For some reason I want Zod to face Hawkeye "where did you learn to shoot, IN A FARM?" evil grin

But I enjoy his fight with Kal-El because he dictated the term of the fight(either you die...) and carry out until the(reallY) bitter end.

Maybe is just me but I think a villian is important part of any superhero movie and that Marvel have relegated them to a walking pushing bag, which is why I enjoy more DC right now.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#49677: Jan 19th 2016 at 7:23:40 AM

I really don't get how the "smaller people" line makes Ultron less intimidating. It's not about him being dim-witted, it's about how distant he is from humanity. How unimportant certain basic principles that we hold sacred are to him. He forgets the word for children because he doesn't care about the distinction between individual people; they're all the same to him.

There's a similar line in Rick And Morty describing the titular super-genius Rick. To demonstrate how amoral the character is during an argument, his son-in-law Jerry points out, "I once saw him briefly forget the word for HUMAN!" The point is the character's apathy for other living things, not that he's stupid.

edited 19th Jan '16 7:24:43 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#49678: Jan 19th 2016 at 7:25:51 AM

I find Ultron a threatening force, but not an intimidating one.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#49679: Jan 19th 2016 at 7:30:45 AM

i've discussed this before but a lot of the marvel movies (most of them, in fact) are very hero-centric. this means that the villain is usually just someone that fits the plot the best and works, but isn't necessarily a super memorable and charismatic villain.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#49680: Jan 19th 2016 at 7:30:56 AM

[up][up] Inclined to agree. Still, I liked him a lot.

[up] I suppose sometimes it's a necessary evil. When you have a limited runtime, you have to make sacrifices, and in the final analysis, the hero is the more important character.

edited 19th Jan '16 7:32:20 AM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#49681: Jan 19th 2016 at 7:34:13 AM

This was already posted in the Deadpool thread but those of you that were afraid the movie was going to be trash can relax. There were early screenings for it and the audience loved it. Even Stan Lee was there!

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#49682: Jan 19th 2016 at 7:35:18 AM

When does that come out?

Oh God! Natural light!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#49684: Jan 19th 2016 at 7:39:30 AM

[up][up]In about 1 month.

edited 19th Jan '16 7:53:28 AM by LordofLore

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#49685: Jan 19th 2016 at 8:09:44 AM

Ah, good. I can see it over spring break. Which, conveniently, is where my birthday falls this year.

Oh God! Natural light!
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#49686: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:22:19 AM

Okay, now I'm curious, let's play Rank The MCU Villains!

Killgrave > Fisk > Loki > Ultron > Darren Cross > Nebula > Ronan the Accuser > Killian > Zola > Iron Monger > vanko > Hammer > Abomination > Crossbones > Red Skull > Maleketh

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#49687: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:27:58 AM

  1. ZOLA WITH HIS BRAIN IN THOUSANDS OF 70S REEL-TO-REEL COMPUTERS
  2. Kilgrave
  3. Mandarin(s)
  4. Wilson Fisk
  5. Alexander Pierce
  6. Grant Ward
  7. Dottie Underwood
  8. Ultron
  9. Loki
  10. and the rest

edited 19th Jan '16 10:28:54 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#49688: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:28:13 AM

Thanos sir not appearing on this list until he stops being sir cameo?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#49689: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:36:57 AM

I really don't get how the "smaller people" line makes Ultron less intimidating. It's not about him being dim-witted, it's about how distant he is from humanity. How unimportant certain basic principles that we hold sacred are to him. He forgets the word for children because he doesn't care about the distinction between individual people; they're all the same to him.

I can see it that way, but I say the reason why the line doesn't work for me is not just the words itself but also the delivery. Right when Ultron remembers what the correct word is, he makes this ridiculous "DUH" expression that serves to humanize him rather than make him seem more alien. Up until then Ultron had been terrifying to me, but as soon as he made that "Muppet" face all my fear just drained out. There are perhaps ways to make the idea intimidating that he doesn't get the difference between adults and children. Maybe Pietro is the one to correct his wording and Ultron impassively replies "Is there a difference?" Or maybe he says there's no difference right as he's approaching a small child with skull-crushing on the mind and the others trying to stop him.

And the line doesn't exist in a vacuum. There are other instances of Ultron coming off as less of a threat that this scene only magnifies. But alone it's just one example that anyone can have their own opinion on.

edited 19th Jan '16 10:38:07 AM by Tuckerscreator

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#49690: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:38:15 AM

I think it adds a bit of an uncanny valley to him.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#49691: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:39:34 AM

At this point, Zola can do no wrong for me.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#49692: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:44:00 AM

Cap discovering Zola in that bunker is, in my opinion, the greatest moment in the entire MCU.

"I am not a recording, fraulein!" Goosebumps every time.

I hope he downloaded his brain somewhere else and survived.

edited 19th Jan '16 10:44:18 AM by KnownUnknown

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#49693: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:45:32 AM

well, grant ward is quite a villian, since he manage to what other villian have fail a this point: make the audicen HATE HIM.

I meant, so far the reaction range from "Meh" to "Reall Y?" to "Goddamn he is so cute, of course he is right!" with Ward every reaction is just some sort of "I WANT HIS HEAD ON A PLATE!" the hate is strong with him, that is quite impresive in his own way.

Edit: My favorite part of Zola is when he correct Cap "Im sweedish, not german" that so lol for me.

edited 19th Jan '16 10:46:29 AM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#49694: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:46:51 AM

Okay, now I'm curious, let's play Rank The MCU Villains!

Sure thing. Here's my personal list.

The Purple Man = The Kingpin > Ultron > Alexander Pierce > Iron Monger > The Red Skull > Werner Reinhardt > Yellowjacket > The Clairvoyant > The Abomination > Ronan the Accuser > Aldrich Killian > Loki > Whiplash > Malekith the Accursed.

edited 19th Jan '16 10:48:16 AM by VeryMelon

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#49695: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:48:05 AM

"You and I have something in common captain; we are both out of time."

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#49696: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:53:01 AM

I kept my list to Big Bads for brevity sake. I don't really feel like going over every antagonist in the MCU.

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#49697: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:53:33 AM

out of what i've seen, loki and hydra would be the best.

everyone else is either passable, underwhelming, or fails to make any lasting impression (i meant to actually watch daredevil but never managed to watch past the second episode lol).

edited 19th Jan '16 10:54:03 AM by wehrmacht

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#49698: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:56:41 AM

[up]And not even the whole HYDRA, just winter soldier version, every other time they are just puching bags.

Garret is good as villian...until the last episode when he fall full stupidity, ughh.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#49699: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:56:48 AM

I Stick to the top ten:

1. Loki

2. Hydra (Yes, I know that it is not one person, but Alexander Pierce would be my number 2 anyway. Thrown in all the other interesting Hydra villains, from Red Scull over Zola to Garret, Ward and Whitehall, Hydra has easily the most impressive rogues gallery. Marvel really doesn't get enough credit for putting together such a compelling constant threat).

3. Killgrave (If the question were the most terrifying villain, he would be my number one).

4. Dottie Underwood (Another one who gets unfairly overlooked all the time! I hesitate, though, to say Leviathan in general, because I am not sure if it sticks around for future Agent Carter episodes)

5. Ronan (I don't care what others say, he is the perfect villain for that movie, and I enjoy every second he is on screen)

6. Jiaying

7. Wilson Fisks (he would be higher if not for the fact that Wesley often comes off as more threatening and smarter than him).

8. Ultron (mostly because I love this last scene between him and Vision)

9. Obediah Stane (he would be higher if he were less obviously evil at the start of the movie and less impulsive at the end of it)

10. Darren Cross (not the most memorable of villains, but definitely one of the creepiest)

I leave Nuke, Nebula and Thanos off the list for now because I first need to see how their story develops, before making a final judgement...and The Other is more a henchmen than a villain.

Best Antagonists:

1. The Winter Soldier

2. Yondu

3. Stick

4. General Talbot (yeah, I enjoy him even more than General Ross)

5. Hal/Mr. Hyde (I hesitate to put him on the villain list)

6. General Ross

7. Trish's mother

8. Denarian Sal

9. Justin Hammer (would be higher because Sam Rockwell is really enjoyable, but man, the overall quality of the movie and his incompetence just drags the character down)

10. Gonzales (Who came very close to a dishonourable mention....)

Dishonorable mention: Robyn (This character just annoyed me, which, yes, was kind of the intention, but I will be glad if I don't get to see her, ever)

edited 19th Jan '16 10:57:44 AM by Swanpride

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#49700: Jan 19th 2016 at 10:58:52 AM

I'm terrible at listing, but Kilgrave definitely gets my vote for best MCU villain.

I also would rank the Mandarin and Alexander Pierce pretty highly.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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