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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#49226: Jan 13th 2016 at 7:50:25 AM

My main problem with Hawkeye in the first Avengers was an extension of my larger problem in that movie, which was I didn't really care for any of the characters at that point in time besides Tony. Even then, Hawkeye was particularly boring to me and the film felt like all he was there for was to provide Natasha with some sort of emotional conflict/stakes in the movie, rather than because he was bringing something interesting to the table on his own merits.

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#49227: Jan 13th 2016 at 7:53:10 AM

@Pheer for some reason I occasionally find stupid things worth defining and hashing out. You're right, it's probably better to drop.

[up]Well, accuracy and a helluvan eye are very important traits for s team to have. Shame about the characterization though.

edited 13th Jan '16 7:55:27 AM by MousaThe14

The Blog The Art
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#49228: Jan 13th 2016 at 7:57:09 AM

like tobias said he has a lot of useful skills to bring to the table, but the avengers movie was pretty much all front lines all the time so he just stands there shooting a few arrows and stuff.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#49229: Jan 13th 2016 at 8:20:41 AM

It's not just a matter of power, but more of theme. Black Widow, as far as I remember, doesn't really have anything going for her that would make a movie with its own identity. Who would she fight, for example? HYDRA? Cap already fight these guys. She is a cool character, but I am not convinced she has enough to make a movie by herself. The most interesting thing about her backstory, which has already been covered both in Age of Ultron and Agent Carter.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#49230: Jan 13th 2016 at 8:25:35 AM

Who she would fight? Easy, a villain who fits her. Just like any other Superhero. And what would be wrong with her fighting Hydra? Ao S does this all the time. That's the beauty of Hydra, it can turn up again and again in different forms.

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#49231: Jan 13th 2016 at 8:26:35 AM

I actually found my biggest problem with Hawkeye is not the powers (or lack thereof) but his personality (or lack thereof tongue). He just seemed pretty bland to me. The EMH version was if anything even LESS useful powers wise but his braggadocio and full awareness he was a normal human being on a superpowered team let him have good character work with others, particularly the Hulk. In season one, anyway.

MCU Hawkeye had a few good moments (his cameo in Thor was spot on Clint Barton, his pep talk to Scarlet Witch) but even with the Family Farm he just seemed... dull. And if you don't have flashy powers to make up for it then what exactly are you bringing to the table here?

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#49232: Jan 13th 2016 at 8:27:40 AM

[up]basically my problem with him but better explained.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#49233: Jan 13th 2016 at 8:28:49 AM

@Theokal3: Who would Black Widow fight? That's so easy. Other graduates of the Red Room, of course.

Like Yelena Belova.

edited 13th Jan '16 8:43:26 AM by higherbrainpattern

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#49234: Jan 13th 2016 at 8:31:27 AM

Yeah I agree MCU hawkeye surprises me with how unalike my expectations he is.

Which is weird, because his cameo in Thor felt spot on.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#49235: Jan 13th 2016 at 8:31:44 AM

I agree that it sucks that they removed Clint's snark for some reason. They decomposited his funny bits and relationship with Mockingbird and used them to make a Composite Character out of Lance Hunter for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Despite ostensibly being a pre-existing character from the comics, Hunter is basically 616 Hawkeye minus the archery.

edited 13th Jan '16 8:32:45 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#49236: Jan 13th 2016 at 8:35:51 AM

So weird.

616 universe Clint would consider murder to become MCU Clint, but then be unable to commit to it.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#49237: Jan 13th 2016 at 8:40:58 AM

MCU Hawkeye is basically Ultimate Universe Hawkeye. MCU Lance Hunter is basically 616 Hawkeye. (Meanwhile, 616 Lance Hunter was a balding British gentlemen who was the head of the British version of SHIELD, but has recently been revamped to look more like MCU Lance Hunter.)

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#49238: Jan 13th 2016 at 8:43:17 AM

The comics also poke fun at MCU Hunter being 616 Hawkeye. 616 Bobbi hooked up with Hunter to correspond with the show because of course she did, but sometimes slips and accidentally calls him Clint.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#49239: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:09:36 AM

Yes, she "slips." (It was really a great comic and everyone should read it. And the same writer is making a Mockingbird ongoing, too!)

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#49240: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:13:14 AM

Which comic was this?

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#49241: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:15:12 AM

The Mockingbird one-shot for Marvel's SHIELD 50th Anniversary line.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#49242: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:32:24 AM

Does anyone know how those Shield titles do financially? And the Black Widow run?

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#49243: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:35:02 AM

I assume the Black Widow run must have been doing ok, because the industry doesn't let titles that are losing them money go on for very long in most cases.

edited 13th Jan '16 9:39:07 AM by wehrmacht

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#49244: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:37:43 AM

Probably the same as the SHIELD comic, since Marvel is bringing both of them back - the SHIELD comic will be called Agents of SHIELD this time and have a team consisting of Coulson, May, Fitz, Simmons, Mockingbird, Quake, and Deathlock (who is Henry Hayes in 616 now). And Black Widow is coming back with - YES! - the same Mark Waid/Chris Samnee team that did Daredevil.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#49245: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:53:32 AM

Who would she fight, for example?

Does she not have a rogues gallery like every comic book hero out there?

Edit: Found some.[1]

edited 13th Jan '16 9:54:21 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TenebrousGaze Dark Eye from A Shaded Face Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
Dark Eye
#49246: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:56:38 AM

I (and it seems many others) think Yelena would be a good villain choice for a Black Widow solo. While some people tire of mirror villains, having another Black Widow be the villain would be good for bringing the focus to her (and could work in a bunch more backstory) after her having a notable but thematically backseat role for past movies.

edited 13th Jan '16 9:59:11 AM by TenebrousGaze

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#49247: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:57:52 AM

Yes. In fact, we've already seen other graduates from the Red Room (Dottie from Agent Carter), so it would make perfect sense.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#49248: Jan 13th 2016 at 9:58:29 AM

Since we never learned Dotti's real name it is possible that we already have her in the MCU.

DrFurball Since: Jan, 2001
#49249: Jan 13th 2016 at 10:02:08 AM

I'd be totally up for a Black Widow movie. I'm just wondering what comic stories it'd draw from (yeah, I know that none of the MCU has been direct adaptations of comic arcs, but save for maybe Guardians, they've all taken inspiration from specific stories from the comics).

What are considered to be some of Natasha's best stories?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#49250: Jan 13th 2016 at 10:08:14 AM

By 'Superhero Presence', I mean: a larger-than-life figure that dominates the room wearing a ridiculous costume or wielding a ridiculous weapon who also believes strongly in doing the right thing. It's not due to her being a woman: Captain Marvel, Wasp, She-Hulk, and Storm have that presence. It's not due to her having no powers: Hawkeye has it without them. Black Widow is a fantastic character, but she's not quite...gimmicky enough to feel like a Superhero. Her suit is black leather, but aside from that it's pretty bland. She fights with martial arts, but that's pretty much it. The Avengers movies tried to give her a 'taser-suit', but I don't feel that it stuck. She's cool, but she doesn't register as 'Superhero' in my mind. 'Top-Level Spy' yeah, 'amazing martial artist', but not 'Superhero'. A Black Widow movie could be an amazing Spy movie, but I feel that it would be very difficult to make it into a Superhero Spy movie while still staying true to the character.

edited 13th Jan '16 10:08:31 AM by PushoverMediaCritic


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