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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#49201: Jan 12th 2016 at 6:52:01 PM

I would be super happy for a black widow movie done well, but I do enjoy her as a supporting character.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#49202: Jan 12th 2016 at 6:53:01 PM

Having read the pretty great Black Widow Marvel NOW run, her series is plenty more interesting than just "person with no powers shoots people with no powers". Much of the action scenes are more about showcasing her ingenuity, such as hunting a high-value target while also keeping him safe from the rival assassin after him, traveling around the world in detective work, or making up for her lack of powers when fighting paranormal opponents.

It isn't fair to dismiss her potential just because she lacks powers. It's like when after The Avengers people were claiming "Captain America is dumb, all he can do is punch people" and then The Winter Soldier premiered.

edited 12th Jan '16 6:53:12 PM by Tuckerscreator

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#49203: Jan 12th 2016 at 6:57:22 PM

Get Guy Richie to make a Black Widow movie!

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#49204: Jan 12th 2016 at 6:57:23 PM

a person's powers or lack thereof has no bearing on how interesting they are as a character.

edited 12th Jan '16 6:57:34 PM by wehrmacht

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#49205: Jan 12th 2016 at 9:08:52 PM

We're getting another Spider-Man reboot and people are complaining about Black Widow retreading ground and oversaturating the market?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#49206: Jan 12th 2016 at 9:25:32 PM

A Black Widow movie might be a great Spy movie but, unlike with Captain America, which was Superhero War movie, Thor, which was Superhero Fantasy, and Hulk, which is Superhero Monster movie, I'm not seeing a Black Widow movie as being anything more than a Spy movie. She's a great character, but I'm not sure about the kinds of stories you could tell with her making the movie a Superhero Spy movie, as opposed to just Spy. She doesn't have the presence the others do.

Mildly on-topic, what would be the perfect character to tell a Superhero Horror movie?

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#49207: Jan 12th 2016 at 9:28:12 PM

Red Hulk.

You never said they couldn't be the monster.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#49208: Jan 12th 2016 at 9:39:21 PM

I was thinking Ghost Rider (with Nicolas Cage again, obviously), or Moon Knight.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#49210: Jan 12th 2016 at 10:07:17 PM

Giant-Size Man-Thing.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#49211: Jan 12th 2016 at 10:12:21 PM

Howard the Duck might actually be fun for a Comic Book Political Satire movie.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#49212: Jan 12th 2016 at 10:12:43 PM

[up][up] Damnit, you beat me to it!

I think Black Widow can work as a film lead if she's got powered individuals working alongside as well as against her, similar to the situation in The Winter Soldier. She's the team Combat Pragmatist, and her strengths are in things potentially more interesting than smashing or shooting things, so it would be interesting seeing her outsmart people much stronger than her.

If a film was announced I'd be less concerned about whether they can make it interesting and more whether Scarjo's acting is up to snuff. IMO it took until The Winter Soldier for Black Widow to become really interesting to me, and I think a big part of it had to do with the writing suiting her strengths as an actor better by appealing to her playful side.

edited 12th Jan '16 10:19:24 PM by AlleyOop

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#49213: Jan 12th 2016 at 10:14:07 PM

Watch him be flabbergasted at Donald Trump even being considered for president.

edited 12th Jan '16 10:14:32 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#49214: Jan 12th 2016 at 10:23:54 PM

Mildly on-topic, what would be the perfect character to tell a Superhero Horror movie?
Honestly? The Vision.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#49215: Jan 13th 2016 at 3:09:37 AM

A Black Widow film could easily just be a superhero Bond movie, do with Black Widow to the Bond films what was done with Cap to war movies.

Though admittedly part of what makes Bond work is that he's part of an organisation, so we might need Black Widow to be working for someone if such a film was to work, still between SHIELD, the US goverment, the Avengers themselves, the ATCU and all sorts of other organisations that might appear that shouldn't be hard.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#49216: Jan 13th 2016 at 4:26:45 AM

I think that a lot of the upcoming movies will turn out to be team up movies. This worked so well with Winter Soldier, and if it works just as well in Thor Ragnaric and Ant-man and the Wasp, it will most likely become the new approach.

Black Widow would certainly work as a movie. As I said, if she can have her own comic book series, she also can have her own movie. And who cares if she has powers or not? Peggy has no powers whatsoever, even less than Black Widow, and she can head her own series, too. In fact, exactly the lack of power could be interesting, if she goes up against a big baddie with powers and has to outsmart him somehow. Wouldn't that be the ultimate power fantasy? The idea that with the right training, even a tiny woman could take on some sort of supervillain?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#49217: Jan 13th 2016 at 4:41:18 AM

It's not even her lack of powers: it's her lack of a superhero-y presence.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#49218: Jan 13th 2016 at 5:32:02 AM

????? She has plenty of presence...how could she not, considering the actress who plays her?

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#49219: Jan 13th 2016 at 5:40:02 AM

What exactly is "superhero-y presence"?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#49220: Jan 13th 2016 at 6:16:31 AM

My best guess is that superhero-y presence demands some sort of excess absurdity? I dunno, seems like a BS concept, but maybe it's they ability to look like you came out of a Comic Con floor but still be taken seriously and Romanova's costume is a little too ordinary.

One could say the same about Clint except he openly weilds a bow and arrow as legitimate weapons in the 21st century.

The Blog The Art
yellowturtle from Nowhere Important Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#49221: Jan 13th 2016 at 6:33:30 AM

Black Widow + Mockingbird grin

Crow: There's a plot?
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#49222: Jan 13th 2016 at 7:08:58 AM

[up][up]To be fair, the bow and arrow can still be incredibly lethal, and basically silent, making it good for stealth kills.

Doesn't excuse fighting aliens and stuff with it, but he blew up a bunker with one, so eh.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#49223: Jan 13th 2016 at 7:39:12 AM

Hawkeye is a fantastic character undermined by the fact that the Avengers films don't know what to do with him, because the Avengers films don't try to have any action pieces that aren't "Everybody fights a giant mob battle." Widow gets screwed by the same issue.

Hawkeye is a sniper and Widow's a spy. They have amazing skillsets for combatting organizations like Hydra. They're built for subterfuge and assassination. They're wasted on the front lines, and lots of front lines were all the Avengers films ever offered.

This is the key to Widow's impressive performance in Winter Soldier; the plot actually allowed her to play to her strengths rather than just be another face punching robots. There are tons of ways a spy and a sniper can be useful in a major conflict, but when every single action piece is Iron Man punching the Hulk through twelve buildings, they're just left twiddling their thumbs.

edited 13th Jan '16 7:40:34 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#49224: Jan 13th 2016 at 7:46:38 AM

You've mentioned all this many times before and I totally agree with all of it, but it's sort of a tangent to the initial "what the hell is "superhero presence" supposed to mean" line of conversation. I wasn't mentioning Hawkeye to undermine his value but to speculate why he gets a pass as "Superhero presence" while Widow doesnt,

Unless you were obliquely making the point they as spies/subterfuge specialist/indirect sorts they are, by definition, not supposed to have a "superhero-y presence" because it's not their traditional role to be in-your-face superhero-y.

The Blog The Art
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#49225: Jan 13th 2016 at 7:48:29 AM

I just kind of ignored the question of superhero presence because I have no idea what it's even supposed to mean.

Maybe Marketability? Snark level? Facial Hair Growth Potential?


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