Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread
. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
- Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.
If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I wouldn't necessarily say Token Good Teammate.
What made the Thunderbolts engaging was the sort of villainous civil war that they underwent. Their premise was a bunch of villains masquerading as a group of heroes in order to disguise their villainous intentions, and what made their story intriguing was the way certain members of the group came to realize they actually kind of liked their new direction and didn't want to carry out the plan after all.
So it's less Token Good and more the product of Character Development. I could see it happening in the climax as something like,
- ZEMO: We're about to become the masters of this world!
- SONGBIRD: The only thing we were ever masters of was evil.
But, y'know, better written and not as lame.
edited 6th Jan '16 1:43:29 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.This thread is moving fast.
Really I think Pym particle powers are so powerful that Scott and Hope are better set against organisations rather than a single figure. Also, if the sequel keeps the caper genre, then that would be convenient.
AIM, they should fight AIM. And not the military contractor version in Iron Man, the 'emulates a beehive mad scientist organisation' version from the comics.
Make them fight MODOK. It's the only current franchise silly enough to get away with it. Do it.
edited 6th Jan '16 1:45:25 PM by Whowho
There are a few villains like Kirei or especially twisted versions of the Joker that know they're evil and revel in it. And there are some sadists like that in real life. Things is, though, those kinds of people aren't well suited for forming alliances. A socipath thinks themselves superior to everyone else; allying with another person goes against their brand of backstabbing. Someone like the Zodiac Killer may brag that murder is so much fun, but with a mind that twisted it's going to be hard for them to form any kind of Masters of Evil with anyone.
edited 6th Jan '16 1:51:11 PM by Tuckerscreator
Most people who proclaim themselves "evil" are usually people who have abandoned the concept of good and evil entirely and just call themselves evil ironically. Incidentally, people like that are usually too apathetic to really enact a crazy supervillain plot, let alone work with a team.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!Unlikely since superhero movies are what they are, but I could see Ant-Man and The Wasp working without any supervillains getting involved. The Martian showed you can have a great movie without villains in it.
Instead the conflict could be Man vs. Nature (the main conflict being their inability to find Janet), or at most Janet might be a little Brainwashed and Crazy by her experiences and resist Hope and Scott's attempts at turning her back into normal.
For once I actually agree with Tobias Drake. A group calling themselves Evil just doesn't work in a Real Life context. Maybe for a bunch of REAL psychopaths who are cynical and nihilistic, or characters who really are evil like Demons, but a group of terrorists? No.
About the trailer: nice presentation, but that still doesn't reveal much about what we'll see in the season...
[disregard, answered my own question]
edited 7th Jan '16 8:46:58 AM by Nohbody
All your safe space are belong to Trump- Zemo: "You are obsolete, Iron Man. We have become your masters!"
- Tony (mocking): "Only a Master of Evil, Darth."
Not only does it double as a Mythology Gag to the comics and a Shout-Out to Star Wars, but that's totally something movie Tony would say.
Though I think just calling themselves "The Masters," or not having a formal name and just name dropping the word "master" on occasion, would work fine.
I had an idea of the Masters being recruited in various films in a dark reflection of the Avengers after-credits scenes in the Phase 1 and 2 movies, with lines like:
- To AOS Blizzard: "You have spent your life as a slave to HYDRA, but with us you will become their master."
- To (X Villain That Gets Empowered in the Stinger): "It may be difficult to control now, but we can teach you to master that power!"
Etc.
edited 7th Jan '16 12:06:07 PM by KnownUnknown
The Masters of Evil would also give some much needed permanence to some Marvel Villains. The villains, save for Loki, are all so insular to their franchises that the expectation is that they're never going to amount to anything outside of facilitating the hero's character development.
Zemo, The Enchantress, Hammer!Red Dynamo and The Abomination are a formidable enough roster. (Not that the Enchantress has been confirmed yet) Not sure I have anyone else on my wish list. Andy Serkis' Klaw was good fun, and is one of the few characters who have a valid grudge against the Avengers, rather than just some of their members. I'm curious what will become of Cross Bones in Civil War, but we'll have to see. Same with what ever villain Ant Man And The Wasp and Black Panther gain.
Some much needed permanence, at that. I still feel like one of the things the universe needs is a sense that super-crime and other unnatural threats are truly on the rise, and that the rise of superheroes is causing the state of the verse to change, rather than very isolated and mostly personal incidents.
I don't know about Hammer for Dynamo, but I could see someone else using the Whiplash technology. Or Vanko somehow escaping a point blank explosion via action movie / comic book logic, but since Mickey Rourke is unlikely to ever want to do the character again that's even less likely than it already would have been.
I also think the verse could use a good Anti-Tony (that is, The Smart Guy who can keep up with Tony technologically and supply villains and criminal organizations with supertech without immediately being taken down), but all the good ones from the Iron Man films are dead, and the other ones I can think of (Tinkerer, Doctor Doom, etc) aren't usable by Marvel Studios (yet). Did that series really have to kill off everybody?
edited 7th Jan '16 12:21:59 PM by KnownUnknown
Given the way the movies never consistently use codenames anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if they were only ever referred to as "Masters of Evil" in the marketing.
I didn't even notice until someone pointed it out to me, but AOU went the entire movie without ever actually calling Pietro and Wanda Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch.
Justin Hammer could be a good anti-Tony given a MASSIVE level in competence.
edited 7th Jan '16 12:55:01 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
Hammer getting a Let's Get Dangerous moment and or taking a level in competency would be satisfying for me.
They could have Vanko return with another actor, and possibly heavily scared? I don't know, I prefer Hammer returning, as it would be more satisfying character development.
Hammer taking the role of the Tinker would be in character I feel, that's more the white collar crime he's interested in.
Plus, Hammer's tech isn't unusable, just unreliable. He did make War Machine.
Really though, I get the impression that Hammer is a salesman, not an inventor.
Tries really hard to not make a snark about them wasting the Mandarin
Anyway, I agree Marvel would probably have less problem making memorable villains if they didn't keep killing them off in one movie. Though to be fair, some of them, like Red Skull, were intended to be brought back but couln't due to the actors refusing.
edited 7th Jan '16 7:11:26 PM by Theokal3

Maybe have one of them as a Token Good Teammate and he uses the word once he or she gets fed up with the team?
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?