TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#48926: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:37:52 PM

Maybe have one of them as a Token Good Teammate and he uses the word once he or she gets fed up with the team?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#48927: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:42:44 PM

I wouldn't necessarily say Token Good Teammate.

What made the Thunderbolts engaging was the sort of villainous civil war that they underwent. Their premise was a bunch of villains masquerading as a group of heroes in order to disguise their villainous intentions, and what made their story intriguing was the way certain members of the group came to realize they actually kind of liked their new direction and didn't want to carry out the plan after all.

So it's less Token Good and more the product of Character Development. I could see it happening in the climax as something like,

  • ZEMO: We're about to become the masters of this world!
  • SONGBIRD: The only thing we were ever masters of was evil.

But, y'know, better written and not as lame.

edited 6th Jan '16 1:43:29 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#48928: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:43:40 PM

This thread is moving fast.

Really I think Pym particle powers are so powerful that Scott and Hope are better set against organisations rather than a single figure. Also, if the sequel keeps the caper genre, then that would be convenient.

AIM, they should fight AIM. And not the military contractor version in Iron Man, the 'emulates a beehive mad scientist organisation' version from the comics.

Make them fight MODOK. It's the only current franchise silly enough to get away with it. Do it.

edited 6th Jan '16 1:45:25 PM by Whowho

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#48929: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:50:53 PM

There are a few villains like Kirei or especially twisted versions of the Joker that know they're evil and revel in it. And there are some sadists like that in real life. Things is, though, those kinds of people aren't well suited for forming alliances. A socipath thinks themselves superior to everyone else; allying with another person goes against their brand of backstabbing. Someone like the Zodiac Killer may brag that murder is so much fun, but with a mind that twisted it's going to be hard for them to form any kind of Masters of Evil with anyone.

edited 6th Jan '16 1:51:11 PM by Tuckerscreator

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#48930: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:52:52 PM

I think "the masters of evil" should be the avengers' term for the team, they themselves shouldn't need to name themselves, they know who they are.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#48931: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:55:40 PM

Most people who proclaim themselves "evil" are usually people who have abandoned the concept of good and evil entirely and just call themselves evil ironically. Incidentally, people like that are usually too apathetic to really enact a crazy supervillain plot, let alone work with a team.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#48932: Jan 6th 2016 at 2:06:03 PM

Maybe the public calls them Masters of Evil or something.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#48933: Jan 6th 2016 at 2:24:04 PM

The public and government calling them The Masters of Evil would be delightfully topical, like how outside of The English world ISIS are recognised by the name Daesh (which clumsily translates to "tramples on things")

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#48934: Jan 6th 2016 at 2:48:38 PM

Unlikely since superhero movies are what they are, but I could see Ant-Man and The Wasp working without any supervillains getting involved. The Martian showed you can have a great movie without villains in it.

Instead the conflict could be Man vs. Nature (the main conflict being their inability to find Janet), or at most Janet might be a little Brainwashed and Crazy by her experiences and resist Hope and Scott's attempts at turning her back into normal.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#48936: Jan 7th 2016 at 6:07:53 AM

For once I actually agree with Tobias Drake. A group calling themselves Evil just doesn't work in a Real Life context. Maybe for a bunch of REAL psychopaths who are cynical and nihilistic, or characters who really are evil like Demons, but a group of terrorists? No.

About the trailer: nice presentation, but that still doesn't reveal much about what we'll see in the season...

Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#48937: Jan 7th 2016 at 8:46:20 AM

[disregard, answered my own question]

edited 7th Jan '16 8:46:58 AM by Nohbody

All your safe space are belong to Trump
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#48938: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:01:54 PM

  • Zemo: "You are obsolete, Iron Man. We have become your masters!"
  • Tony (mocking): "Only a Master of Evil, Darth."

Not only does it double as a Mythology Gag to the comics and a Shout-Out to Star Wars, but that's totally something movie Tony would say.

Though I think just calling themselves "The Masters," or not having a formal name and just name dropping the word "master" on occasion, would work fine.

I had an idea of the Masters being recruited in various films in a dark reflection of the Avengers after-credits scenes in the Phase 1 and 2 movies, with lines like:

  • To AOS Blizzard: "You have spent your life as a slave to HYDRA, but with us you will become their master."
  • To (X Villain That Gets Empowered in the Stinger): "It may be difficult to control now, but we can teach you to master that power!"

Etc.

edited 7th Jan '16 12:06:07 PM by KnownUnknown

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#48939: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:08:28 PM

Don't we have an axis of evil? I don't think that the media or some politician using the words "Masters of Evil" is that far-fetched.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#48940: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:13:21 PM

The Masters of Evil would also give some much needed permanence to some Marvel Villains. The villains, save for Loki, are all so insular to their franchises that the expectation is that they're never going to amount to anything outside of facilitating the hero's character development.

Zemo, The Enchantress, Hammer!Red Dynamo and The Abomination are a formidable enough roster. (Not that the Enchantress has been confirmed yet) Not sure I have anyone else on my wish list. Andy Serkis' Klaw was good fun, and is one of the few characters who have a valid grudge against the Avengers, rather than just some of their members. I'm curious what will become of Cross Bones in Civil War, but we'll have to see. Same with what ever villain Ant Man And The Wasp and Black Panther gain.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#48941: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:16:10 PM

Some much needed permanence, at that. I still feel like one of the things the universe needs is a sense that super-crime and other unnatural threats are truly on the rise, and that the rise of superheroes is causing the state of the verse to change, rather than very isolated and mostly personal incidents.

I don't know about Hammer for Dynamo, but I could see someone else using the Whiplash technology. Or Vanko somehow escaping a point blank explosion via action movie / comic book logic, but since Mickey Rourke is unlikely to ever want to do the character again that's even less likely than it already would have been.

I also think the verse could use a good Anti-Tony (that is, The Smart Guy who can keep up with Tony technologically and supply villains and criminal organizations with supertech without immediately being taken down), but all the good ones from the Iron Man films are dead, and the other ones I can think of (Tinkerer, Doctor Doom, etc) aren't usable by Marvel Studios (yet). Did that series really have to kill off everybody?

edited 7th Jan '16 12:21:59 PM by KnownUnknown

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#48942: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:19:51 PM

Given the way the movies never consistently use codenames anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if they were only ever referred to as "Masters of Evil" in the marketing.

I didn't even notice until someone pointed it out to me, but AOU went the entire movie without ever actually calling Pietro and Wanda Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#48943: Jan 7th 2016 at 12:54:41 PM

Justin Hammer could be a good anti-Tony given a MASSIVE level in competence.

edited 7th Jan '16 12:55:01 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#48944: Jan 7th 2016 at 1:41:17 PM

Whowho, it's Crimson Dynamo, not Red Dynamo.

Either way, maybe all that prison time would make Justin Hammer into a competent villain for once?

And Blizzard is kind of busy being dead at the moment to help out.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#48945: Jan 7th 2016 at 1:48:22 PM

Hammer getting a Let's Get Dangerous moment and or taking a level in competency would be satisfying for me.

They could have Vanko return with another actor, and possibly heavily scared? I don't know, I prefer Hammer returning, as it would be more satisfying character development.

Hammer taking the role of the Tinker would be in character I feel, that's more the white collar crime he's interested in.

Plus, Hammer's tech isn't unusable, just unreliable. He did make War Machine.

Really though, I get the impression that Hammer is a salesman, not an inventor.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#48946: Jan 7th 2016 at 2:50:58 PM

If they had to bring back Hammer he could easily be the team's financial backer. It would even factor into his Anti-Tony status. That line about Tony paying for everything and making everyone look cool? That could be him.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#48947: Jan 7th 2016 at 7:11:09 PM

Tries really hard to not make a snark about them wasting the Mandarin

Anyway, I agree Marvel would probably have less problem making memorable villains if they didn't keep killing them off in one movie. Though to be fair, some of them, like Red Skull, were intended to be brought back but couln't due to the actors refusing.

edited 7th Jan '16 7:11:26 PM by Theokal3

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#48948: Jan 7th 2016 at 8:00:36 PM

The Red Skull can still be brought back - after all, the comics version has been known to switch bodies.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#48949: Jan 7th 2016 at 8:02:24 PM

Hugo Weaving said if he was called back as the Red Skull he would do it because it's part of his contract. Even if he's not particularly interested in it.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love

Total posts: 186,763
Top