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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#48901: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:15:08 PM

Large groups do not call themselves evil because they need the support of the people. A small team could easily call themselves evil, as long as they had no intention of presenting themselves as anything other than that.

FoxBoxKid Philosophy Enthusiast from California Republic Since: Oct, 2013
Philosophy Enthusiast
#48902: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:16:32 PM

If they adapt the Masters of Evil, I think it would be best if they take a lot from the Thunderbolts.

Make mine Marvel.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#48903: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:18:41 PM

Just call them the Thunderbolts and make it look like they're reformed heroes, then have The Avengers investigate them and reveal their true villainy or something. Combine the political thriller elements of Winter Soldier with the action adventure elements of the earlier films.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#48904: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:19:08 PM

Large groups do not call themselves evil because people do not wake up in the morning and go, "Ahh, today is a good day for evil. What dastardly deeds shall I do today?" It's not about appealing to the public, it's about the fact that everyone is the hero of their own story.

Donald Trump thinks he's the only man who can save America. He doesn't break out his Evil Planner every morning and try to figure out which puppies haven't been kicked yet.

This is an important point of writing. A good villain does not consider himself the villain. He does not cackle about the wretched heroes and their pathetic ideals of Good and Justice. As far as he's concerned, everyone would be better off if they just let him achieve his goals. Those goals may not be Utopia Justifies the Means, but he certainly doesn't see anything wrong with them. If he did, he wouldn't be pursuing them.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#48905: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:20:32 PM

I've thought potentially that Loki could be behind the Masters of Evil and could call them the Thunderbolts in an ironic nod to his brother.

I also have this idea of Justin Hammer being MACH-I on the Thunderbolts and being oblivious to the fact that he's on a team of super-villains pretending to be heroes. And he'd have this Sweetums-like moment at the end where he helps this Avengers.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#48906: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:21:40 PM

The Joker begs to differ. He knows he's a vile person, and he LOVES committing atrocious acts just to piss Batman off.

At the same time, that wouldn't work for a potential Masters of Evil film. Just have them out for revenge and under a different name or something.

[up]

I'm pretty sure after being turned into a prison bitch, he's not gonna be a fan of Iron Man.

edited 6th Jan '16 1:22:39 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
FoxBoxKid Philosophy Enthusiast from California Republic Since: Oct, 2013
Philosophy Enthusiast
#48907: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:22:05 PM

Make mine Marvel.
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#48908: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:23:01 PM

Anything short of Dread Lord Dormammu is a step down in threat after Thanos, might as well step down the threat with a new concept, which a super villain team of past foes would be.

Furthermore MARVEL has said that Infinity War has multiple villains, and with it being two movies I half expect the Masters of Evil to turn up in infinity war.

As for the name, a few people have suggested Thunderbolts instead, and it wouldn't be the first time a team name gets changed in adaptation. Personally I expect "Masters Of Evil" to be a spy code term for the (possibility of) villain team.

Considering we're getting either the Enchantress or Hela in Thor Ragnarock (unless someone really unexpected fill the role of "iconic female villain"), and Zemo and The Enchantress are two of the most iconic villains of the team, I think it's possible.

Tim Roth still has movies in his contract for The Abomination (though, do contracts expire? I don't know) though personally I think the idea of another gamma monster fight a bit tedious, there's plenty of ways to make it fresh considering the wealth of possibilities in a super team fight. (Like, what if ant man shrinks down the abomination to human size and the abomination and Cap have a fist fight)

Sam Rockwell seems to enjoy working for MARVEL, and he is poised to become the crimson dynamo. He also has a shared history with two major Avengers; War Machine and Iron Man, and most of all I want to see the Whiplash suit and Thor play tennis with lightning bolts.

Crossbones might survive civil war, Kassius Klaw is primed to return with a claw, and there's the villains of Ant man and the Wasp and 'Black Panther'' to consider. (I think the villains of Doctor Strange might be out of scope for The Masters of Evil, and it's not clear if Spider-Man villains can appear outside the solo films)

Moonstone is a likely villain for Captain Marvel (I guess?) and has been a prominent member of The Masters of Evil, but that seems less likely to me on an immediate timescale.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#48909: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:24:19 PM

Sadists exist. Those are people who DO wake up every morning thinking "This is a good day for evil!" Sadists usually don't get into positions of power but one with power wouldn't have any problem admitting to being evil.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#48910: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:26:26 PM

By the way, what have we been speculating the villain will be in Ant-Man and The Wasp? Didn't Cross have a brother in the comics?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#48912: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:27:02 PM

The Joker begs to differ. He knows he's a vile person, and he LOVES committing atrocious acts just to piss Batman off.

The Joker doesn't know what he is. He has a Multiple-Choice Past because he changes his mind about who he is and what he stands for at the drop of a hat.

In the film, the Joker thinks everyone is a vile person and considers himself ahead of the curve. In this way, he still manages to place himself in a position of moral superiority to the rest of society. He's the guy on Twitter who goes, "Everybody's an asshole but at least I'm honest about it!"

And he's made it his personal mission to prove it to the world. His entire self-image is wrapped up in the idea that he's not a bad guy, not really, and that everyone else should just open their eyes and see that they're as twisted as him.

Even when he's turning Harvey Dent to his side, most of the conversation is spent defending his choices.

edited 6th Jan '16 1:28:22 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#48913: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:28:10 PM

That's one interpretation, of course, but you have a point.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#48914: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:30:25 PM

It's his own interpretation. He outright explains the "ahead of the curve" thing to Batman during his interrogation. That's a direct quote.

Their morals, their code; it's a bad joke. Dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. You'll see- I'll show you. When the chips are down these, uh, civilized people? They'll eat each other. See I'm not a monster, I'm just ahead of the curve.

That's his worldview and the reason he believes he's justified in doing what he does. Even the Joker considers himself the hero of the piece.

edited 6th Jan '16 1:30:59 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#48915: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:31:42 PM

Some people, especially in fiction, see themselves as the bad guy.

vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#48916: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:31:58 PM

The whole point of Kotomine Kirei from Fate Stay Night is that he has struggled his life to find a purpose, given he has a conscience, but by the time he meets Emiya Shirou, adopted son of his rival, he has already realized he can only find fulfillment in evil. Therefore he oposes the heroes because their ideals of good and justice represent the man he hates. His villainy is great, thanks to him accepting his own evil.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#48917: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:32:15 PM

I meant one interpretation of The Joker. Other interpretations are different depending on who's writing and what era of comics and what medium. You're using the Heath Ledger Joker, who is much more of a general anarchist then Mark Hamill's Joker, who does whatever he wants and delights in scaring and torturing people.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#48918: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:32:41 PM

I think having the team be the Thunderbolts would work best. Or call themselves just "The Masters" or something. Hell, call themselves the Revengers.

I do want them to have a little nod to their original name, though. Like one of them goes, "We're the masters now!" and Tony goes, "Only the masters of evil, Darth!"

edited 6th Jan '16 1:33:21 PM by alliterator

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#48919: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:32:50 PM

Looking at the comics there's not much to choose from for iconic Ant-man villains or Wasp villains. Kassius Klaw caught, but the big one is Ultron, which isn't impossible, but it would have to be a massively weaker iteration of Speakers-for-butts.

Considering Hank wants to go back to the microverse to find Jenet, Darren Cross could return as a monstrous humanoid, but really I expect Task Master (who is a versitile villain to rogues transplant, and who Scott considers a rival, even if Task Master only has vauge ideas who Scott is) or an entirely fresh rogues transplant of a villain previously unrelated to ant man and wasp.

Whirlwind could be called Janet Van Dyme's arch antagonist, but his rights are probably at Fox.

Given the opportunity to pick any villain available and put them against Scott and Hope, I'd have to consider who could ha e an interesting fight with two shrinking people.

edited 6th Jan '16 1:34:42 PM by Whowho

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#48920: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:34:03 PM

Ulysses Klaw, not Kassius.

And there's another character who is Cross's brother in the comics (he was in the original Edgar Wright draft of the film).

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#48921: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:34:07 PM

Maybe one of the villains from the Microverse?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#48922: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:34:46 PM

Whirlwind could be called Janet Van Dyme's arch antagonist, but his rights are probably at Fox.
Why would Fox own him? He's a mutant, but he's never been associated with the X-Men - it's always pretty much been Ant-Man, the Wasp, and the Avengers.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#48923: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:35:30 PM

I had a (joking) idea that Luis could become Taskmaster.

He figures out how to beat a much stronger inmate with a single punch and he's an autodiact with sophisticated knowledge of diverse subjects.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#48924: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:35:42 PM

I would be down for a Thunderbolts film, but I would want the Thunderbolts to be the main characters, not just villains for the Avengers to fight. Songbird would be a fantastic lead.

If "Masters of Evil" is used as an insult, it would also give the name more kick to have it coming from one of their own.

edited 6th Jan '16 1:36:07 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#48925: Jan 6th 2016 at 1:35:42 PM

Bleh, and I'm idiot getting Klaw's first name mixed up.


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