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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#48601: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:14:05 PM

Ah, sorry. Mentally skipped a groove.

I mean. I don't really think whether or not Dr. Strange is white in the comics should impact whether he's cast as white in the films. In the midst of the millions of other pieces of meaningless trivia the film's going to rearrange or ignore, they could do worse than change how much melanin Strange has.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#48602: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:15:39 PM

Yep, I've definitely seen that. Maybe even on Your Fave is Problematic itself. I've also seen it aimed towards Michael Fassbender as proof he hates black people, even though he obviously can't hate them that much if he's willing to go out with them.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#48603: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:18:49 PM

I mean.

You can date people of different races and still be racist.

But yeah, no, the argument that they're racist because they were in a movie as slaveowners is dumb.

Clearly they're racist due to an educational system, social atmosphere, and media culture that makes it impossible to be white and not have racism as a sort of background radiation in your brain.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#48604: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:20:54 PM

Uh, I hope you're not literally saying that it's impossible for white people to not be racist. Because there's a way to word that in a way that's still true without making that kind of pronunciation. Not to mention the US =/= the rest of the world.

edited 28th Dec '15 12:23:22 PM by AlleyOop

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#48605: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:25:00 PM

I am, but I get the impression that the way I'm using the word racist is very different from how you're interpreting it.

Like. Even if you don't want to, even if you know it's wrong, most white people will still make assumptions about non-white people they see in passing, that they see in media, that they hear about. I know. I'm white—well, it's complicated, but I'm a light-skinned guy raised in a mostly-white neighborhood. That sort of shit is baked into me too, and I still do it reflexively. It's a tough thing to fight. I'm not passing judgment or calling anyone a horrible person for that sort of thing. Just acknowledging it.

Obviously racism works differently in different places that I can't speak for, but, y'know, they have cultures and media and educational systems and historical backgrounds that I bet make the way racism works pretty similar.

edited 28th Dec '15 12:26:01 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#48606: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:27:45 PM

Though it is almost impossible to live in society today and not hold some degree of racism if your white (or to benefit from institutionally racist practices), what you're describing is prejudice.

edited 28th Dec '15 12:31:05 PM by KnownUnknown

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#48607: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:28:28 PM

In that case you might want to take that to the Racism thread in On-Topic, because we're straying really hard here.

Noticed there's still no word on Wong by the way, which is going to be a problem if the movie really is going to adapt parts of The Oath.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#48609: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:30:38 PM

Though it is almost impossible to live in society today and not hold some degree of racism (or to benefit from institutionally racist practices), I'm inclined to point out that what you're describing is prejudice.
I tend to see racism as a subset of prejudice. Obviously the things I'm saying also apply to the perception of women or anyone without a majority in this country.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#48610: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:31:39 PM

"It's impossible to be white without being racist"

Which is amusingly racist.

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#48611: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:31:51 PM

Racism is a subset of prejudice. It's the AIDS to prejudice's HIV. The line between them is very thin and difficult to place. But having presuppositions and ignorant preconceptions about people tends towards the latter.

To get back to the original point, though, it is very possible to date a person of a different race and still be racist.

edited 28th Dec '15 12:32:55 PM by KnownUnknown

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#48613: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:33:34 PM

Clearly they're racist due to an educational system, social atmosphere, and media culture that makes it impossible to be white and not have racism as a sort of background radiation in your brain.
......Quick question, Wackd. Do you believe only white people can be racist?

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#48614: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:34:35 PM

[up] That's not a quick question, that's a conversation. It's definitely loaded. Let's not go there.

edited 28th Dec '15 12:35:32 PM by KnownUnknown

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#48615: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:35:42 PM

"It's impossible to be white without being racist"

Which is amusingly racist.

I mean. If someone with white skin were raised in a cultural and historical vacuum, or an unwavering far and equitable society, I wouldn't say that they still must be racist. I'm not saying that there's, like, some chemical in white skin that makes you bigotted the way people once claimed black people had inherently inferior skulls that made them stupid.

......Quick question, Wackd. Do you believe only white people can be racist?
I believe that white racism is the only racism that can have a meaningful impact on the lives of others in this country, and thus the only one worth discussing in the context of said country.

edited 28th Dec '15 12:37:15 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#48616: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:36:17 PM

Do you know what I come to the Marvel Cinematic Universe thread for guys? Discussions about the Marvel movies. Not discussions on racism and prejudice which is why Whack'd bringing it up at every opportunity annoys me. If you want to discuss racism and prejudice we have a thread for that.

edited 28th Dec '15 12:42:00 PM by Canid117

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#48617: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:38:10 PM

Yeah, no, I definitely let this one get away from me. I'm sorry. That's entirely my fault.

All that said, I do think that there are times when discussions of race are relevant here, and I'll try to restrict my dips into the topic to those times.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#48618: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:38:47 PM

Subject of discussion:

T'Challa, boxers or briefs?

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#48619: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:39:23 PM

Let's talk about Dr Strange's Goatee instead.

I admire a man who can rock a goatee.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#48620: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:40:00 PM

It's gotta be briefs, right? I mean, you're doing jumps and flips and shit, you need something stopping your junk from flying everywhere.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#48621: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:40:25 PM

Why is it considered off topic when we're discussing racism in the casting of these movies? That's a perfectly legitimate conversation to have.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#48622: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:40:27 PM

I sure hope not, because I'm yellow as a daffodil and part of my family is quite openly racist to the point of having purposely given subpar service to people because of their race, and I don't think that kind of behavior should be excused just because they're not white.

[up] Probably because we're not actually talking about it with respect to the MCU anymore.

edited 28th Dec '15 12:41:40 PM by AlleyOop

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#48623: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:41:39 PM

Why is it considered off topic when we're discussing racism in the casting of these movies? That's a perfectly legitimate conversation to have.
I agree. But we were discussing whether or not institutional racism exists, which is pretty damn far off topic and I regret going there.

Or, rather, I regret using it as a launchpad for conversation rather than the brief aside I originally intended it as.

edited 28th Dec '15 12:42:19 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#48624: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:42:10 PM

T'Challa's royalty.

And if there's any constant about royalty everywhere, it's that they do everything commando or not at all.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#48625: Dec 28th 2015 at 12:43:11 PM

Edit: Let's drop this.

edited 28th Dec '15 12:46:16 PM by Kostya


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