TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#48351: Dec 15th 2015 at 8:56:55 PM

Wait, is it mind control or just stimulating pleasure centers?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#48352: Dec 15th 2015 at 8:59:03 PM

[up] Isn't that kind of mind control in and of itself?

I mean, if someone told him "stimulate my pleasure centers, I want to get turned on", that'd be one thing, but...

Oh God! Natural light!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#48353: Dec 15th 2015 at 9:00:24 PM

I thought it was just inducing a physiological reaction.

Like you'd be feeling physical pleasure but you'd have enough mind clarity to know it was being caused by his powers.

Controlling the ends of your nerves, not the brain.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#48354: Dec 15th 2015 at 9:02:22 PM

That. But for the sake of accuracy, it's not (mostly) a Compelling Voice thing in the sense that unlike Kilgrave, he couldn't/doesn't command people to do things. But he can simulate pleasure and good will which includes (although I think retconned?) making people want to have sex with him.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#48355: Dec 15th 2015 at 9:03:52 PM

He could make millions replacing Viagra.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#48356: Dec 15th 2015 at 9:12:50 PM

Not to beat a dead horse, but although as noted, it was revealed (rectonned?) that it was Thanos framing him, there was basically a storyline in comics where Starfox does to She Hulk what Kilgrave did to Jessica Jones (in the Netflix series) but played for laughs.
It actually wasn't played for laughs and when She-Hulk thought he actually did it, she was super pissed. But actually Dan Slott, who wrote that story, introduced and revealed that it was a trick by Thanos in the same plotline, so there was no retcon.

Although, what Starfox did do was still creepy: he intensified the feelings that She-Hulk already had for John Jameson so that they got married. When she found out about that, she was also royally pissed and ended up leaving Jameson because of it.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#48357: Dec 15th 2015 at 9:21:47 PM

Ah. My apologies then. I was kind of going off of a combination of what I had understood about the story and Starfox's wikipedia article (which shows him leching on She Hulk).

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#48358: Dec 15th 2015 at 9:23:24 PM

God, comic writers have some WEIRD issues regarding sexuality.

Like... I spent five minutes turning that sentence over in my head. 4 and a half minutes were spent comprehending it, then half a minute was spent realizing doesn't that mean he accidentally raped her?

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#48360: Dec 15th 2015 at 9:26:42 PM

[up][up]i've always thought putting most of this stuff in DC and Marvel was in poor taste. Stuff like Vertigo or offshoot continuities is one thing, but as far as the mainstream verses go, lol nope

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#48361: Dec 15th 2015 at 9:28:56 PM

Basically, keeping Starfox's original powers wouldn't be an issue if he was the Big Bad, but if he's supposed to be an ally then they need to be removed.

Is that what I'm getting from everyone?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#48362: Dec 15th 2015 at 9:30:38 PM

[up][up] Really? So no mainstream comics should handle those topics at all?

I mean, Alias handled the topic of sexual assault incredibly well and that was part of the mainstream continuity. The fact that it was part of Marvel MAX just meant that it was rated R, not that it was never happened.

[up] Pretty much. Also, his name is too silly.

edited 15th Dec '15 9:31:20 PM by alliterator

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#48363: Dec 15th 2015 at 9:32:09 PM

This discusion reminds me of something was going to bring up in the Jessica Jones thread but actually seems an even better fit here.

So in Mistborn, one of the characters, Breeze, has sort of the same power as Starfox- it involves soothing emotions but in a way that can/does often involve a Charm Person effect. Which he uses it a lot in social interactions or trying to cage drinks off of people, there's obviously a recognition of the troubling implications of misusing the power. Notably, Breeze's best friend is this grouchy guy who has the ability to block his abilities and the character doesn't really pursue romance- and when he does, he ends up with a woman who has the equal and opposite power which involves stimulating emotions/passions.

He does actually do something similar (although more benign) than what Starfox did to She Hulk- he judiciously uses his powers to help start out a couple's romantic (although not sexual) relationship.

It's not stated outright, but what comes across is that Breeze recognizes that since he can't avoid temptation to use his power, he's going to use it for good (or at worst minor things) and is not going to pursue close relationships because doing so would be really rapey.

So getting back on topic, unless Starfox has this level of self control, he's not really hero material for an adaptation (although worth bringing up is that the Ravagers thought that Peter's father was a dick).

edited 15th Dec '15 9:35:13 PM by Hodor2

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#48364: Dec 15th 2015 at 9:34:29 PM

[up][up]I was under the impression that MAX WAS a separate continuity, but I suppose I could have been mistaken.

edited 15th Dec '15 9:34:43 PM by wehrmacht

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#48365: Dec 15th 2015 at 9:35:07 PM

I think the thing is that Vertigo or MAX—in theory—attract more mature writers who actually know how to handle this shit. Not saying it turns out that way in practice.

The same skillset that makes you really good at writing folks in spandex punching each other and occasionally angsting about it does not make you good at writing about rape or abuse.

edited 15th Dec '15 9:35:29 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#48366: Dec 15th 2015 at 9:37:07 PM

I was under the impression that MAX WAS a separate continuity, but I suppose I could have been mistaken.
Some were alternate continuity, but Alias was definitely part of the main Marvel 616 universe.

[up]True. Brian Michael Bendis, who wrote Alias, got his start writing crime and noir comics, so he might have been better suited than, say, Steve Englehart, whose story about Mockingbird's rape in West Coast Avengers was...not good. At all. (Of course, Englehart had a lot of issues with his female characters.)

edited 15th Dec '15 9:39:17 PM by alliterator

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#48367: Dec 15th 2015 at 9:39:37 PM

I only ever really heard of MAX in relation to the Punisher.

Superheroes as a genre can totally handle the subject of sexual abuse. The writers, however, are a much different story. That's the way I see it.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#48368: Dec 15th 2015 at 9:41:17 PM

[up] Punisher MAX was also a really great series that handled serious topics. Read the storyline called "The Slavers" and you'll find part of it is actually a pretty good exploration of sexual slavery. The other part is, of course, Frank Castle killing a whole lot people who really needed to die.

(Of course, Punisher MAX is not in main 616 continuity, because Frank Castle aged in real time and no superheroes ever showed up. But still.)

edited 15th Dec '15 9:42:22 PM by alliterator

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#48369: Dec 16th 2015 at 5:42:15 AM

I would say, at least the writers realized how incredibly creepy the Power Perversion Potential factor for Starfox is. In his most recent appearance, they flat out had him promising a group of women he wouldn't use his powers to get them to screw him, and that he'd seduce them the old fashioned way.

edited 16th Dec '15 5:42:45 AM by comicwriter

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#48370: Dec 16th 2015 at 8:03:57 AM

Question: Was Quill's mom really the one who came up with the name "Starlord"?

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#48371: Dec 16th 2015 at 8:07:59 AM

She calls him Starlord at one point. I have a feeling she didn't do that by accident though. She probably knew the father was an alien entity.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#48372: Dec 16th 2015 at 8:15:26 AM

In the movie, she calls him, "My little Starlord" as an affectionate term in her letter. It's very emotional.

edited 16th Dec '15 8:15:52 AM by higherbrainpattern

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#48373: Dec 16th 2015 at 10:36:14 AM

So, in the same way that I found myself re-evaluating what happened to Blonsky when he took the super soldier formula after hearing how it actually works in Captain America The First Avenger, I'm currently doing the same for The Avengers Age Of Ultron (I'm watching it as I write this) after the reveals of Hyrdra's origins in Agents Of Shield.

Strucker talks about surrendering, but this is just to lure the Avengers off the trailer. He wants to give up the weapons to keep them from learning about something else. He talks about how close there are to their real goal.

We just learned in Agents Of Shield (spoilers for those who have not watched the last few episodes of that series) that Hydra is far older than the Red Skull and Nazi Germany, and that it's real goal was to bring an ancient Inhuman back to Earth. Now Hydra took Loki's Sceptre, and nipped a lot of Chitauri tech in the aftermath of the Battle of New York. How much do you want to bet they were studying all of it in the hope of maybe using it to learn how to open portals to other worlds?

In fact, this goes for the original experiments with the Tesseract as well.

Once again, a later movie paints a scene in an earlier movie in a whole new light.

One Strip! One Strip!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#48374: Dec 16th 2015 at 11:00:07 AM

Something interesting in that regard is that Obadiah Stane's speech in the first Iron Man movie, plus the fact he took over Stark Industries after Howard's death (that we know for a fact was caused by a HYDRA), with the hindsight of HYDRA's philosophy and goals, strongly imply he was a member of HYDRA or at least associated with them.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#48375: Dec 16th 2015 at 11:27:51 AM

Wow. That speech.

Stane: Weapons that will help steer the world back on course; put the balance of power in our hands. The right hands.

I don't know how far back they've been planning this, but there is an ambiguity to what Stane is saying that lends credence to the idea that he was also tied to Hydra.

If this is the case, that's incredible.

One Strip! One Strip!

Total posts: 186,763
Top