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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#48076: Dec 10th 2015 at 11:54:14 AM

I wasn't talking about you, Very Melon. I was talking about a very hideous comment I saw two pages ago.

edited 10th Dec '15 11:55:45 AM by higherbrainpattern

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#48078: Dec 10th 2015 at 11:59:04 AM

@Handsome Rob

He's worth it. A Netflix debut of the other half of the Heroes For Hire, a soon-to-be Defender, and one of Marvel's most beloved mid-tiers ought to be welcomed.

edited 10th Dec '15 12:05:00 PM by nervmeister

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#48079: Dec 10th 2015 at 12:05:47 PM

I honestly don't see any problems with him being Hispanic.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#48080: Dec 10th 2015 at 12:08:58 PM

[up]I dont mind either. Iron Fist is known for his ki powers, batshit insane origin, and being filthy rich. His skin tone isn't exactly the first essential thing people write down when describing him.

edited 10th Dec '15 12:14:52 PM by nervmeister

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#48081: Dec 10th 2015 at 12:18:56 PM

You can do a colourblind casting and still remind yourself that you might have a bias. I mean, shouldn't Iron Fist be able to sell fight moves as convincing as possible? This alone should narrow down the field.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#48083: Dec 10th 2015 at 12:22:36 PM

And here's where I can tell people that Osric Chau is a martial artist and knows Tai Chi and Modern Wushu. (Also, he was awesome on Supernatural.)

edited 10th Dec '15 12:22:54 PM by alliterator

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#48084: Dec 10th 2015 at 12:23:50 PM

@higherbrainpattern

I know who and what you mean. That's like, half of what they ever post in this thread, and a big rational behind the edits they frequently make to trope pages. I don't think they're a troll but I wonder if their username was purposefully chosen as an abbreviation of a... particular Internet buzzword ideology that's gotten popular over last year.

Anyway I think the Mandarin twist happened in particular because the Chinese directly funded the movie's production.

edited 10th Dec '15 12:30:17 PM by AlleyOop

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#48085: Dec 10th 2015 at 12:30:39 PM

@Alley, it's not based on anything specific and recent, he's always been like that.

Oooooh, Osric Chau is a nice idea. As Danny or Shang Chi.

Okay, I got it, Iron Fist and his masterful and extremely experienced friend, Shang Chi, starring Charlie Hunnam and Osric Chau. The story is about Danny but we will never forget who is the superior martial artist.

Or alternatively Just plain Osric Chau as Danny Rand.

The Blog The Art
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#48086: Dec 10th 2015 at 12:38:35 PM

You know what, guys. I think the first concern about Iron Fist should be weaving a good story/adaptation driven by well developed characters (even the minor ones). If this series ends up on par in quality with the two we've seem on Netflix so far, less people will give half a shit about how many "brownie points" it earns among various races/genders, regardless of the chosen cast.

edited 10th Dec '15 12:42:11 PM by nervmeister

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#48087: Dec 10th 2015 at 12:42:18 PM

Well as the White Saviour article on The Other Wiki points out, Mighty Whitey is not a bad trope in and of itself but has become one due to how cliche and tired it is, even before all the racial subtext comes in. Marvel not doing anything to fix it already means they failed to do as good of a job with the story as they could have.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#48088: Dec 10th 2015 at 12:42:44 PM

Maaaaayyyybe writing a "good story/adaptation driven by well developed characters" is not mutually exclusive to with "avoiding racist tropes and providing representation"? And you don't have to pick just one?

Maybe those things are actually one and the same, a lot of the time?

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#48089: Dec 10th 2015 at 12:48:26 PM

it depends on how you define providing representation. a story can be fairly good from a representation standpoint and should be lauded for that, but be very underwhelming in terms of storytelling and overall craft.

it's not that difficult to do both at the same time though.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#48090: Dec 10th 2015 at 12:50:45 PM

[up][up][up]That wont be too hard with Iron Fist, if at all. Rand is one of EIGHT individuals who rival each other with astonishing chi abilities. It's highly debatable whether Danny is "the greatest of em' all".

edited 10th Dec '15 12:52:47 PM by nervmeister

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#48091: Dec 10th 2015 at 1:01:58 PM

The assumption that Danny is The Best doesn't bother me so much as the implicit declaration that narratives involving other cultures and races are only interesting insofar as we can have a white guy be the focus. Like, martial arts? Dragons? Magic? All great! The people we're taking those things from are boring, though.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#48092: Dec 10th 2015 at 1:37:49 PM

[up]Well, I think it's silly for the higher-ups to assume that a white dude is the "safe" bet for making a "viewpoint character" (personal tastes, upbringing, and the like be damned). But, even if Danny does get played by a non-white actor, this is STILL the story of a kid from an absurdly wealthy family who gets orphaned in Tibet and adopted by mystical warriors who train him to be a chi-blasting "living weapon" of sorts, then gets sent back home to become a crime fighting billionaire. At this point, what race the character is kind of takes a back seat to the madness of what I just described.

edited 10th Dec '15 1:44:02 PM by nervmeister

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#48094: Dec 10th 2015 at 1:42:48 PM

Why does he have to be a billionaire? Can't he simply be a well-off trust-fund baby?

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#48095: Dec 10th 2015 at 1:44:37 PM

Yeah, um, hrm. That's another thing about Iron Fist. Him being absurdly well-off makes him a bizarre fit for a team of folks who are, at their core, fighting inequality.

A billionaire white dude with magical powers sounds like the sort of person you'd create as a villain for Daredevil, Jessica, or Luke.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#48096: Dec 10th 2015 at 1:46:02 PM

[up][up]Who's going to run Rand Industries in the meantime?

edited 10th Dec '15 1:47:32 PM by nervmeister

Wackd Since: May, 2009
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#48098: Dec 10th 2015 at 1:53:32 PM

[up][up][up]Even in the MNU, "rich" does not always mean "evil" (shocking, I know).

edited 10th Dec '15 1:54:16 PM by nervmeister

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#48100: Dec 10th 2015 at 2:01:25 PM

...is iron fist just magical batman

because if so i might hate iron fist now

Sort of? It depends on how you look at it. If you just see them both as billionaire orphans who get special training and then went back home to fight crime, then, well, yes.

But Iron Fist pretty much diverged from that after he began teaming up with Power Man and they formed the Heroes for Hire. They were more like private detectives than superheroes (although they still did superhero work).

The last nail in the Batman coffin was probably Immortal Iron Fist by Matt Fraction, Ed Brubaker, and David Aja, where it was revealed that Danny Rand wasn't the first Iron Fist and there were not only many before him (one of whom is still alive and is a gun-toting pulp hero), but there are many other "Immortal Weapons."

The book also took a jab at the "billionaire hero" trope by having Danny (after realizing that Rand Industries was involved in some super shady stuff) decide to just start donating all of his money to charity. How much money? Until he's "Able to die poor."

(I think I remember a quote from it going, "You know how they say you can get rid of any problem if you throw enough money at it? Well, let's see what happens when we throw a whole lot of money.")

edited 10th Dec '15 2:02:11 PM by alliterator


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