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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#48051: Dec 10th 2015 at 9:02:18 AM

Well, Quake wasn't half-Asian originally.

They should simply do a colour-blind casting and then look for the actor who can sell the moves convincingly and clicks well with the other Defenders, especially Luke.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#48052: Dec 10th 2015 at 9:33:00 AM

The problem with colorblind casting is that everyone has unconscious biases, so even with colorblind casting most projects end up with a majority of white actors.

edited 10th Dec '15 9:33:14 AM by alliterator

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#48053: Dec 10th 2015 at 9:43:40 AM

@alliterator, Actually this occurred to a Doctor Who showrunner recently. A season or two ago he was "I'm a liberal guy, if we color-blind this everything will even out properly" and then it didn't and he finally realized "okay, that was dumb of me, diversity isn't going to happen unless we make a conscious effort. My bad"

edited 10th Dec '15 9:49:57 AM by MousaThe14

The Blog The Art
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#48054: Dec 10th 2015 at 9:46:51 AM

The latest season featured a white guy regenerating into a black woman

The usual suspects got grouchy, it was great.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#48056: Dec 10th 2015 at 10:24:23 AM

Hey, if that's a spoiler, then goddamn spoiler tag it because I haven't watched the last few episodes of Doctor Who and that better not be a spoiler aaaaaaarrrggh.

edited 10th Dec '15 10:24:34 AM by alliterator

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#48057: Dec 10th 2015 at 10:54:53 AM

It's not really a spoiler unless "other time lords show up" is a spoiler.

The Blog The Art
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#48058: Dec 10th 2015 at 10:58:52 AM

To be fair, less than 10% of all people alive are non-straight. No need to depict them as more common than they are.

edited 10th Dec '15 11:00:43 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#48059: Dec 10th 2015 at 11:01:50 AM

it's still healthy to have them show up because it normalizes the idea that they exist for people, leading to gradually less discrimination against those groups. on top of that, it is artistically interesting because it allows writers to portray different parts of the human experience.

10% is also still a pretty big number of people, at that.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#48060: Dec 10th 2015 at 11:03:24 AM

That...makes it even worse, because the Kunlun Mountains are literally a place from Chinese mythology (and also a real place).

And Atlantis is a place from Greek mythology, but no one insists that denizens of Atlantis in fiction be Greek.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#48061: Dec 10th 2015 at 11:08:02 AM

It's not really a spoiler unless "other time lords show up" is a spoiler.
Yes, that's a goddamn spoiler.

And Atlantis is a place from Greek mythology, but no one insists that denizens of Atlantis in fiction be Greek.
Actually, most of the time, they do depict the denizens of Atlantis as Greek or Roman. They certainly never depict Atlantis as African or Asian.

Also, what part of "the Kunlun mountains are real" don't you understand?

edited 10th Dec '15 11:09:54 AM by alliterator

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#48062: Dec 10th 2015 at 11:11:29 AM

The Atlantians in Atlantis The Lost Empire had a distinctly African feel to them.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#48063: Dec 10th 2015 at 11:17:03 AM

The Atlantis is all other media I've seen has always been pretty Greek and Roman, though.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#48064: Dec 10th 2015 at 11:25:34 AM

Regarding Iron Fist's casting, I think this is one of those situations where we need to accept that he's going to run afoul some stereotype or generally disliked trope no matter what race the character is. They need to accept this up front, and be prepared to modify the story as needed to minimize any problems that arise. I'm not even going to begrudge someone disliking switching ethnicity in general, as long as it's purely coming from a place of favoring accuracy to the source material, and not out of a hatred for what they perceive as political correctness.

If it was up to God-Emperor Falrinn (and we probably should consider ourselves lucky that it is not, as I would make an atrocious God-Emperor), I would probably cast an Asian-American in the role, portray the character as being a minimum of 3rd generation so he considers New York to be his "homeland" more then he does anywhere in Asia, and try to blunt any stereotyping issues by having other Asian-American characters in the show who aren't skilled in Kung Fu or really connected to East Asian culture at all, but contribute to the plot in vital and significant ways.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#48065: Dec 10th 2015 at 11:34:07 AM

The Kunlun mountains are a real place, but their connection to the Kunlun from mythology is pretty tangential, and the connection between the comic books' K'un L'un and the mythological version is even more tangential than that. Certainly neither the real version nor the mythological one are home to extra-dimensional aliens.

Look, the Mighty Whitey trope is a problem because of the implication that, whatever unique qualities a non-white culture might have, as soon as a white person is given the chance to practice it, they'll master it better than any non-white person ever did. If you establish that Danny Rand is far from the first outsider to seek out K'un L'un, that countless people from all nations, races, and walks of life have come there seeking martial arts training, with varying degrees of success, then the implication that Danny succeeded because of his race is no longer present.

Now, if your concern is that you just want more racial diversity in the MCU in general, that's a whole different kettle of fish. But that goal could be served by any actor of a non-European descent, not necessarily an Asian one.

edited 10th Dec '15 11:36:58 AM by RavenWilder

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#48066: Dec 10th 2015 at 11:39:17 AM

And if my concern is both?

Look, minimizing the Mighty Whitey trope while still keeping Danny Rand white is possible — in fact, Fraction and Brubaker did just that in Immortal Iron Fist when they introduced a whole bunch of other Immortal Weapons who were all at least as good or better than Danny. But the origin - where Danny becomes better than all of Lei Kung's other students - still smacks of Mighty Whitey, even if you make his students multicultural.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#48068: Dec 10th 2015 at 11:43:08 AM

Regarding Atlantis, I actually made a few research on the topic, since I intended to write a book with them. And here is a funny thing: in the original legend from Platon, Atlanteans actually had three different ethnies in their empire.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#48069: Dec 10th 2015 at 11:48:04 AM

Actually all this talk about how problematic the character is makes me wonder: Is it possible to re-use the Mandarin twist with Danny?

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#48070: Dec 10th 2015 at 11:48:52 AM

[up][up][up]Daniella Rand??? Er....it could work. And hey, a "Mister Knight" could be introduced later.

edited 10th Dec '15 11:51:48 AM by nervmeister

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#48072: Dec 10th 2015 at 11:51:19 AM

I hope I didn't cause you to make that comment. I asked a serious question.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#48073: Dec 10th 2015 at 11:51:35 AM

[up][up]I think some do, but there are a lot of issues no matter what they choose to do that may outweigh any potential benefits.

Truthfully, Iron Fist is such a problem that I wonder if he's even really worth it.

edited 10th Dec '15 11:51:49 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#48074: Dec 10th 2015 at 11:52:40 AM

I think if they buddy him up with Shang-Chi like the Ultimate comics did, he'll probably be fine. In the Ultimate line, Iron Fist and Shang-Chi were crime-fighting Bash Brothers.

edited 10th Dec '15 11:53:11 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#48075: Dec 10th 2015 at 11:53:28 AM

I figure this, if Marvel already tried to dodge a racial insensitivity bullet with the Mandarin, then I'm sure they're well aware of the issues with Iron Fist and so will respond in some manner. We'll wait for the casting news to see.

edited 10th Dec '15 11:55:01 AM by Tuckerscreator


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