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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#48001: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:02:22 PM

How is Shang Chi the greatest martial artist in the MU? Has he fought every martial artist in the MU to prove that claim?

For the record, I'm equally questioning of Batman's "world's greatest detective" status.

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#48002: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:02:29 PM

@Theokal, Full blooded American but raised in Asia since childhood, if I remember correctly. Basically the face if your average stereotypical all American hero with whatever stereotypical traits of honor and whatever cliche and vaguely uncomfortable traits we associate with Asian dudes.

It's part of what makes the friendship with Cage so unique. It's sort of like the Rush Hour movies if Chris Tucker wasn't loud and annoying and Jackie Chan is exactly the same but white.

If they do go with that particular route a challenge will definitely be making sure he is a guy that was genuinely raised in those cultures rather than some guy that came along and appropriated them.

The Blog The Art
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#48003: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:06:41 PM

As someone mentioned already, adapting Shang-Chi would also be a good way to finally bring the Mandarin in for real as part of a Pragmatic Adaptation, since his Archnemesis Dad Fu Manchu was a big part of his character and it's not like Marvel can exactly use Fu Manchu anymore. Plus having heroic Shang-Chi and a non-Asian Iron Fist would help dilute the stereotypes from two angles.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#48004: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:12:21 PM

Trying to think of how to express this:

So I'm not averse to an Asian-American Iron Fist but that has its own issues/seems to lead to a message that some people may consider good but it's a bit YMMV.

Basically, besides the All Asians Know Kung Fu, with an Asian American Iron Fist, you have a story of an "Americanized" person who gets thrust into embracing his "traditional" culture. It's not necessarily a bad message (it's basically the aesop of American Born Chinese), but IMO it has a negative edge to it- you know, the idea of criticizing someone for "acting white"- not sure if there's a trope for that.

edited 9th Dec '15 1:18:48 PM by Hodor2

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#48005: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:12:41 PM

This is my argument about having a non-white Iron First.

[up]I don't think they would need to go that way, actually. Because Danny Rand actually rejects K'un L'un in the end and chooses "death" over immortality.

edited 9th Dec '15 1:16:00 PM by alliterator

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#48006: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:14:59 PM

I read a great article a while back about how there are lots of Asian cultures and therefore the idea that Asian!Danny learning Asian!martial arts means embracing his own "traditional" culture is kinda nuts.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#48007: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:15:24 PM

[up][up][up] Category Traitor or The Whitest Black Guy? Which it's true are full of Unfortunate Implications done badly as well. EDIT: In the sense that they suggest there's one true way to act Asian. It's different from the problems Mighty Whitey has.

[up]Yeah if Danny Rand was Asian, but South or Southeast Asian instead of East Asian, I think that would avoid a lot of the stereotypes. If he's the latter maybe he can make a crack about the idea that All Asians Look Alike too.

edited 9th Dec '15 1:27:00 PM by AlleyOop

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#48008: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:23:20 PM

Category Traitor or The Whitest Black Guy? Which it's true are full of Unfortunate Implications done badly as well.
Then every option comes with Unfortunate Implications. If it can't be avoided, at least it can be mitigated.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#48009: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:39:46 PM

Yeah if Danny Rand was Asian, but South or Southeast Asian instead of East Asian, I think that would avoid a lot of the stereotypes.
I mean, even if he was East Asian there are dozens of countries he could come from with wildly varying cultures all of whom see each other as outsiders.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#48010: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:46:52 PM

Make him Hispanic.

edited 9th Dec '15 1:47:11 PM by MadSkillz

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#48012: Dec 9th 2015 at 1:49:41 PM

According to his backstory he was raised in Tibet. Or at least a secret city in Tibet.

edited 9th Dec '15 1:50:29 PM by MousaThe14

The Blog The Art
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#48014: Dec 9th 2015 at 2:01:56 PM

[up][up][up][up] East Asia is officially defined as: China, Taiwan, Japan, the Koreas, and Mongolia. So I guess we could have a Mongolian Iron Fist too, since Mongolians are more likely to be stereotyped as backwards Genghis Khan horsemen than kung fu/karate/taekwondo. Vietnam is also considered culturally part of East Asia, though geographically and ethnically Southeast Asia, and tend to get stereotyped more along Vietnam War lines.

An Iron Fist who's Ainu, Okinawan, Taiwanese Aborigine, Uyghur, or any other such group considered a minority within East Asia would also be cool. Though since Xinjiang is such a touchy subject in Chinese politics and Marvel's banking hard on the Chinese market they probably won't go there.

edited 9th Dec '15 2:12:28 PM by AlleyOop

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#48017: Dec 9th 2015 at 2:54:50 PM

Arabic

North African

Indian

Palestinian

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#48018: Dec 9th 2015 at 2:57:10 PM

Basically there are a lot of options on the table.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#48019: Dec 9th 2015 at 2:58:01 PM

*stands alone with little picket sign* Charlie Hunnam for Danny Rand.

The Blog The Art
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#48020: Dec 9th 2015 at 3:02:33 PM

Oh, I still say that'd be a great casting choice. But I've accepted that it's no hill to die on.

My various fanfics.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#48021: Dec 9th 2015 at 4:39:57 PM

About IF's origins:

IIRC, the IF in the Ultimate Spider-Man show had him be one of those American guys who's filthy rich, but not really satisfied with the high life, so he travels to K'un L'un in one of those finding oneself things. Maybe they could try something like that?

Also, if I can just say something else, I honestly hope they ditch the flats and have go straight to wearing boots. The flats plus the pants that don't cover the ankles kinda looks silly if I'm honest.

edited 9th Dec '15 4:40:51 PM by TargetmasterJoe

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#48022: Dec 9th 2015 at 4:52:00 PM

[up] Not sure if that'd be an improvement...

Oh God! Natural light!
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#48023: Dec 9th 2015 at 4:52:38 PM

No, Ultimate Spider-man cartoon Iron Fist is a douchebag. At least the original comics Iron Fist grew up in the culture rather than sought it out out of boredom.

According to my research his parent died whilst traveling so the people there raised him. He returned to America and took over the big fancy company his dad once owned. Much more humble, slightly less mighty whitey than some jackass kid coming along because he was bored and claiming the Iron Fist.

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Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#48024: Dec 9th 2015 at 4:56:45 PM

The rich white guy finding himself is already taken by Doctor Strange.

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#48025: Dec 9th 2015 at 4:59:44 PM

Why can't they completely change his origin?

Like, some ancient mystic kung-fu god came down, needed a host, and grabbed the nearest guy he could grant powers to, and that was some american tourist?

If that's racist i'm sorry for suggesting it.


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