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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#47776: Dec 7th 2015 at 8:51:46 AM

I still believe that making movie Jane a Composite Character of herself and Dr. Selvig would have been for the better.

edited 7th Dec '15 8:52:18 AM by VeryMelon

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#47777: Dec 7th 2015 at 8:56:31 AM

I wouldn't say the problem with the first movie was that it was too busy throwing in unnecessary characters. Instead, I think the problem is that Thor's central arc got Hijacked by Jesus at some point. Instead of learning humility, he just made a messianic sacrifice and then he was fine.

They boiled down his development into a single moment where he tries to lift Mjolnir. Up until that point, he was the brash and reckless Thor we've known him as. Then the hammer rejects him. After that, he undergoes an entire film's worth of development and is better.

But the Hammer still isn't convinced until he allows Loki to crucify him. The actual development of the character is pushed off to the side so the story can emphasize Thor dying for your sins and then rising again.

edited 7th Dec '15 8:58:05 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#47778: Dec 7th 2015 at 8:58:05 AM

So on the off-chance that Amora the Enchantress appears in Thor: Ragnarok, you guys think the movie will have to refer to her as Amora to avoid confusion with another comic book movie that has someone else named Enchantress?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#47779: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:01:38 AM

No. In fact, they should mainly refer to her as the Enchantress specifically to overshadow Suicide Squad.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#47780: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:02:47 AM

[up][up]Probably. Especially because Thor and other Asgardians would probably be on a first name basis with her.

I like Thor as a character and like both Loki and Thor's "human cast". I do think though that we probably needed to see some more of his interactions with Asgardians/life in Asgard.

Like I think it's too bad in a way that the third Thor movie is set after AOU because at this point, we've gotten more of Thor being wacky around humans than a movie that really uses him as the primary POV character. I'm not saying you can't have that with Thor on Earth, but at least so far it seems to work better when he's in Asgard.

edited 7th Dec '15 9:03:28 AM by Hodor2

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#47781: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:05:27 AM

So we're all in agreement that Thor and company on Asgard in more interesting and compelling than Thor and company on Earth?

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#47782: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:08:32 AM

Nope. Jane and Darcy are awesome. The only good Asgardian characters are Sif and Loki.

So, like, proportionately, the Earth characters are better.

edited 7th Dec '15 9:08:50 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#47783: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:09:15 AM

I don'e care for Darcy actually. And everyone knows how I feel about Loki by now.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#47784: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:18:01 AM

Just talking about location here.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#47785: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:19:01 AM

[up][up][up] Jane and Darcy are great, and so is Thor.

Fuck Loki. Remove Tom Hiddleston from the franchise immediately.

edited 7th Dec '15 9:19:16 AM by higherbrainpattern

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#47786: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:19:03 AM

[up][up][up][up][up] Basically, yeah. Frigga and Heimdall are awesome, Loki has his moments of being interesting even if he's vastly overrated, Odin is alright, the Frost Giants and Dark Elves had underutilized hints of depth, and the Warriors Three and Sif were great in the first movie for the time they showed up. A lot of They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character in there, which I can understand pissing some people off more than not being there at all due to the wasted potential.

As for the human characters, they were tolerable in the first film but the second really ramped up their faults. Jane herself has never really been terrible so much as lackluster, but I liked her astrophysics student subplot in the first film. Darcy was really amusing there too but her humor became very hit or miss in the sequel, and the intern she had a fling with was unbearable. And Selvig has never been exceptional. He had some nice character moments in the first film with the bar scene but aside from that he's mostly an old exposition-giving mentor guy, and what they did to him in the second movie was kind of cruel. So the track record for the humans ranges from forgettable to obnoxious Spotlight-Stealing Squad.

[up][up][up][up] Just curious but what do you like so much about Sif? I don't think there's anything wrong with her, but she really hasn't had enough screentime in the films to stand out unless you're talking about AOS.

edited 7th Dec '15 9:24:19 AM by AlleyOop

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#47787: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:20:17 AM

[up][up][up]And Amora the Enchantress. tongue

EDIT: Fuck Loki. Remove Tom Hiddleston from the franchise

[up][up] Easy there, buddy. Tom is a pretty cool dude.

Guys, I like to think Marvel Studios are guys who learn from their previous works to see what works and what doesn't.

edited 7th Dec '15 9:24:22 AM by TargetmasterJoe

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#47788: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:24:10 AM

man everyone wants a villain who's morally complex and deeply troubled and isn't just doin' stuff for the evilz but then it turns out girls like him and suddenly he's a plague on all our houses who must be eradicated for the sake of the buff guy who punches things

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#47790: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:26:45 AM

[up][up] I really didn't want to say anything for a long time, but could you please tone down the passive aggressiveness in your posts? A lot of the time you come off as unnecessarily rude, even when what you're saying isn't wrong. And sometimes you've been very rude to me and other people even when we did agree with you. And please don't throw around accusations of tone policing, I've seen way too many people pull that as an excuse on places like Tumblr to indulge in GIFT.

Also, unnecessariy strawman, considering multiple people have expressed their reasons for not being fans of Loki that have nothing to do with that at all.

edited 7th Dec '15 9:34:42 AM by AlleyOop

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#47791: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:29:36 AM

Yeah, Wack'd, don't strawman. Seriously?

Loki may have started out complex, but by the time The Dark World came out, his presence in the movie was basically to the detriment of everyone else, including Malekith, the actual villain, who would have been more complex and entertaining if his scenes hadn't been cut because Marvel gave more focus to Loki.

Thor is hardly the buff guy who punches things. For one thing, he actually goes through character development to not be just that guy in the first movie.

edited 7th Dec '15 9:30:37 AM by higherbrainpattern

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#47792: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:37:36 AM

I'm sorry. I just...I just get so frustrated, y'know? Like, I tried being polite and respectful for a long time and I didn't really feel like anyone was listening to me, and I was getting a lot of accusations of being too serious or trying to hard or whatever, and every once in a while I just kinda get sick of trying, y'know? I've got an axe to grind and it's gonna get ground and this time no one can complain that I'm lecturing them. I guess sometimes I take it to far in the opposite direction, but finding that balance is really damn hard and I'm not entirely convinced it'll ever even work. So long as my posts are pro-social justice people'll find reasons to tell me I shouldn't be saying them. Which I guess is me pulling the tone-policing argument.

Anyway I try not to point at any specific person when I vent like that and I am incredibly sorry that it doesn't always work as well as I like.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#47793: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:41:31 AM

Jane and Dr. Selvig should have been one character (Honestly, can you imagine how much more interesting Jane would have automatically been if she had fetched Thor out of Coulson's custody instead of Selvig), and the second movie should have gotten rid of most of the plot on earth. I still don't get why they had to make it so unbelievable complicated instead of starting with Thor coming back to fetch Jane against the will of his father.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#47794: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:42:43 AM

Jane and Dr. Selvig should have been one character (Honestly, can you imagine how much more interesting Jane would have automatically been if she had fetched Thor out of Coulson's custody instead of Selvig)

Yes! Someone else agrees with me here.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#47795: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:43:54 AM

I'll third Selvig being superfluous.

...he is, I think, blatantly just there so they don't have to worry about getting Natalie Portman back for Avengers movies.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#47796: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:47:43 AM

Yeah I though the same thing while watching Age of Ultron.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#47797: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:49:21 AM

I like Selvig.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#47798: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:50:54 AM

  • Being an expert in Norse mythology but sort of skeptical that Thor could be genuine, undergoing a character arc of learning to accept Thor's divinity.
  • Recovering Thor from S.H.I.E.L.D. custody using the fake identity of Jane's ex-boyfriend.
  • Getting drunk under the table by Thor, then respectfully returned home and acknowledged for valor.
  • Working with S.H.I.E.L.D. on building Earth's own Bifrost using the Tesseract.
  • Being mind-controlled by Loki into constructing the portal, then providing the necessary info to Widow on how to close it.
  • Using her research into crossing worlds to stop Malekith's apocalypse.

I never thought about it, but you guys are right. It feels like everything Selvig's done should have been done by Jane. End result is, they both feel like half a character. Jane gets saddled with just the romance subplot while everything that should be great about her as she's presented is instead embodied in Selvig.

I like Selvig too, but looking back, it's clear that the reason Selvig is such a fun character is because all of Jane's likable components and opportunies to affect the plot were shifted to him. He is to the Thor films what Hermione is to the Harry Potter movies, while Jane got delegated to being Ron.

edited 7th Dec '15 9:55:13 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#47799: Dec 7th 2015 at 9:52:20 AM

Hey, Wack'd, I don't have a problem with anyone in this thead (or on the internet in general) being pro-social justice at all. And I'm sorry you feel like you're being ignored.


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