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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#47651: Dec 5th 2015 at 8:03:38 PM

I just think you people are seriously overestimating Spider-Man's power level. He is able to dodge gunfire mostly by jumping around and hoping for the best, but every time, every time he faces a villain, most of the time human-speed-level villains, he gets sucker-punched very easily.

If he were as fast as you believe, folks like the Kingpin, Doctor Octopus, Mr. Negative, Hammerhead, The Vulture, Tombstone and Shocker (all of whom stay in a more-or-less human level of speed) shouldn't even be able to touch him much less pummel him with impunity as they often do.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#47652: Dec 5th 2015 at 8:05:22 PM

Regarding who beats who in a fight

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#47653: Dec 5th 2015 at 8:16:58 PM

I just think you people are seriously overestimating Spider-Man's power level. He is able to dodge gunfire mostly by jumping around and hoping for the best
Wrong.

Manaic Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#47654: Dec 5th 2015 at 8:18:35 PM

Super speed/reflexes is an explicit part of Spider-man's power set. Flash gets hit by people who have no business hitting him all the time (looking at you Deathstroke), it's kinda just how things are.

[up][up]power of plot

edited 5th Dec '15 8:18:54 PM by Manaic

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#47655: Dec 5th 2015 at 8:33:25 PM

Super speed and super reflexes (particularly full range Flash-like speed with all the required secondary powers) would ruin most fights if they weren't conveniently turned on or off for the sake of the narrative.

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#47656: Dec 5th 2015 at 8:51:21 PM

About the Stan Rants vid...

Well, obviously to compare to someone like him, I'm an absolutely nobody when it comes to writing, but in my humble opinion, even if you are the scriptwriter you need to be consistent with the continuity and setting that you built yourself.

That said, that's impossible in comics industry anyways. -shrug-

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#47657: Dec 5th 2015 at 9:03:44 PM

[up][up] In Spider-Man's case it isn't that bad but it just means he has a very selective super-speed/reflexes: It only works when he's dealing with projectiles. Every other scenario? He's fair game.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#47659: Dec 5th 2015 at 9:26:08 PM

That good old "alerts to a threat just in time to get hit by it" Spider-Sense.

It was practically drinking game worthy in Spiderman The Animated S Eries.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#47660: Dec 6th 2015 at 4:30:06 AM

There is a really easy answer to the question who would win in a fight: Whoever the writer wants to win.

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#47661: Dec 6th 2015 at 4:46:33 AM

Well, I can agree that unless Cap can disable the web shooters, it should be Spider win. And seeing he only has an overpowered frisbee...

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#47662: Dec 6th 2015 at 6:20:51 AM

Yeah, I understand that. I'm just saying that without any narrative contrivance, there's no way that Cap can win.

Once again, raw stats mean pretty much nothing in the realm of fiction, unless we're talking a pretty huge disparity like Hulk vs. Hawkeye. Even if we're the "Spider-Man is too fast and too powerful" camp, here's an instance of Cap blocking a punch from him and then punching him back.

edited 6th Dec '15 9:44:40 AM by comicwriter

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#47663: Dec 6th 2015 at 6:38:12 AM

Also, let us not forget one of Spider-Man's most popular and iconic villains is a dude with a knife and a net. And he's the one who defeated Spider-Man and then buried him alive.

edited 6th Dec '15 6:52:47 AM by comicwriter

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#47664: Dec 6th 2015 at 8:18:32 AM

Spider-Man's always had a major problem with weak but skilled opponents. Well, relatively weak.

Probably less so now that he's learned himself some martial arts.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#47665: Dec 6th 2015 at 8:22:48 AM

The guy would have significantly fewer problems if he just ripped people's faces off.

Well, he'd still have problems, but fewer and of a significantly different kind.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#47666: Dec 6th 2015 at 8:40:47 AM

Thing with continuality is that we have no idea what MCU spidy's power level is, maybe he does the "could kill people with a single punch but holds back" thing that sometimes appears in the comics, or maybe he's not as strong as Cap and doesn't have Flash level dodging abilities.

No cinematic Spidy has been as powerful as comic Spidy is, so the strength of comic Spidy realy doesn't tell us anything.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#47667: Dec 6th 2015 at 9:08:10 AM

[up][up] Superior Spider-Man tried to prove otherwise but it tried to prove it in a manner that I don't know if it really sold it. Especially at the end.

edited 6th Dec '15 9:08:22 AM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#47668: Dec 6th 2015 at 9:30:55 AM

Yeah, the whole "Captain America couldn't beat Spidey" thing not only ignores all the times when Cap did beat Spidey in the comics, but also the fact that Kraven the Hunter regularly went up against Spider-Man and was one of his toughest opponents and he was just a normal dude (not even "peak human" like Cap).

stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#47669: Dec 6th 2015 at 9:36:48 AM

Though citing those ignores how Spidey has improved since. You can go back and forth all day, that's why there's whole threads and forums and sites and shows dedicated to "Who would win topics."

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#47670: Dec 6th 2015 at 11:34:51 AM

[up]Also hero-vs-hero battles are ridiculously prone to author favoritism (see Spiderman vs Firelord).

[up][up]Didn't Kraven usually need prep when going up against the wall-crawler?

edited 6th Dec '15 11:38:18 AM by nervmeister

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#47671: Dec 6th 2015 at 11:57:00 AM

Actually, if I remember correct, mainstream Kraven does have powers. Something like a mystical potion enhancing his physical abilities. His Ultimate counterpart was a normal guy at first, and Spidey defeated him in one punch until he mutated himself.

A better example of Badass Normal guy who went up against Spidey would be the Punisher, but then again, how effective the Punisher is tend to be a huge case of Depending on the Writer (either he defeats goons in mass but gets stomped on when going against supervillains, or Garth Ennis writes him and suddenly he is good enough to slaughter all the super in his Universe).

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#47672: Dec 6th 2015 at 2:10:46 PM

RE: MCU!Cap vs. MCU!Spidey: Ummmm, are we forgetting about those times where Cap could hold his own against Loki and Ultron for a pretty decent chunk of time? And I think without his shield for a while? I think if he could fend off those guys, I think he should be able to fend Spidey off no problem. Especially if MCU!Peter Parker has only been Spidey for (IIRC) a year or so.


And since we're on the subject of Spider-Man, let me try some Composite Character experimenting. What if they have...

  • MCU!MJ be the First Girl and MCU!Gwen (still hoping they'll have her around) be the Second Girl, like in the Raimi movies and the Ultimate universe, but...
  • ...MCU!Gwen is a lot like ASM!Gwen in terms of personality and mannerisms, but has occasional bouts of mild swearing, sort of like how Ultimate!Gwen had the habit of swearing, if my memory is correct.

Could it work?

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#47673: Dec 6th 2015 at 3:50:11 PM

I really don't want any love interests in the spiderman movies for a while.They bog the story up a lot.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#47674: Dec 6th 2015 at 4:20:44 PM

I'd be up for no love interests, but if they do, I think they should go with Black Cat, even if only to differentiate themselves from the other two franchises. Plus, shes an Action Girl (unlike Gwen and MJ who usually aren't), which should also help with the MCU's perceived lack of prominent women hroes.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#47675: Dec 6th 2015 at 4:46:34 PM

I'm up for any love interest or plot that doesn't rehash the last 5 Spider-Man movies.


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