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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#47601: Dec 5th 2015 at 11:47:00 AM

No, I mean, how did the battle unfold?

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#47602: Dec 5th 2015 at 11:53:43 AM

Their speed levels are not that far apart. Spider-Man regularly has trouble fighting people like Kingpin and the Punisher all who are several levels below the Captain in terms of speed, strength and reflexes, particularly MCU Cap. While some more recent comics take the explanation that he's "restraining himself" against them, this doesn't change much because he'd have no reason to let loose against Cap either.

In terms of reflexes and speed they're fairly close (again, particularly with MCU Cap who tends to be more overtly superhuman than his comic self).

With regards to the fight in civil war, it turned out more or less how I've stated: Cap won due superior tactics and a vastly superior hand-to-hand fighter (while its in Spanish, it's Spider ruminating on how despite his attempts to study Cap's moves, they flow so fast and well-coordinated they are like just one, big, unpredictable movement).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Canid117 Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#47603: Dec 5th 2015 at 11:55:31 AM

Spider-man habitually holds back against normal humans like Kingpin. When he doesn't he mops the floor with them.

And 616 Spider-Man should not lose to Cap due to "less experience" since they both have about ten years as superheroes under their respective belts.

edited 5th Dec '15 11:57:01 AM by Canid117

"War without fire is like sausages without mustard." - Jean Juvénal des Ursins
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#47604: Dec 5th 2015 at 3:15:51 PM

And how exactly his experience going to prevent him from getting webbed to submission by someone who is stronger (or at least evenly matched), faster, knows in and outs of the battleground (again, assuming the fight takes place in present day NYC), keener reflex and senses, without any ranged attack (because Spidey's not an idiot and will take away his shield anyway)?

I see people trot this out all the time, and if that were the case, 99 percent of all of Spider-Man's fights would be over in about 3 panels.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#47605: Dec 5th 2015 at 3:41:11 PM

Whoever wins a vs is whoever would make the better story.

And that's how it should be.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#47606: Dec 5th 2015 at 3:51:44 PM

Silver Age Spidey was weaker than Kingpin. Not even holding back either: Kingpin's vault was just a humongous metal door that only he could open. Spidey had to stand on the wall and yank with all his might just to make it move a couple feet.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#47607: Dec 5th 2015 at 3:57:06 PM

Dang.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#47608: Dec 5th 2015 at 3:58:26 PM

According to his official profile, Spidey can lift ten tons. Make of that what you will.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#47609: Dec 5th 2015 at 4:00:09 PM

Silver Age Kingpin in general was ridiculous I think.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#47610: Dec 5th 2015 at 4:11:34 PM

Silver Age Kingpin is best Kingpin.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#47611: Dec 5th 2015 at 4:21:56 PM

Not even holding back either: Kingpin's vault was just a humongous metal door that only he could open.

So Silver Age Kingpin was Saxton Hale?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#47612: Dec 5th 2015 at 4:23:33 PM

Pretty much.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#47613: Dec 5th 2015 at 4:37:19 PM

I recall one comic where Spidey gets pissed off at Kingpin for shooting Aunt May, and he goes over to his hideout and decks him in one punch. Apparently Spidey holds back much of his strength, and he decided to let loose in order to threaten the Kingpin.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#47614: Dec 5th 2015 at 4:43:43 PM

I'm talking Silver Age.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#47615: Dec 5th 2015 at 4:44:55 PM

I know. Silver Age was silly stuff. Good stuff, but still very silly.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#47616: Dec 5th 2015 at 4:46:43 PM

In any sane universe, comic book Kingpin would be considered quite comfortably superhuman.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#47617: Dec 5th 2015 at 4:46:44 PM

[up][up]This one. A Crowning Moment Of Awesome if ever there was one.

[up]Honestly Charles Atlas Superpower has to be one of the silliest tropes in the context of a shared superhero universe.

edited 5th Dec '15 4:47:21 PM by comicwriter

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#47618: Dec 5th 2015 at 4:46:57 PM

[up][up][up]Hey now; Marvel's Silver Age was only somewhat silly. The really silly half of the Silver Age was most of DC's output. Superbaby and Rainbow Batman anyone?

edited 5th Dec '15 4:47:11 PM by kkhohoho

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#47619: Dec 5th 2015 at 4:47:12 PM

That was actually in the middle of a pretty serious plotline about an ancient tablet that all the supervillains wanted that had the formula for eternal youth written on it.

edited 5th Dec '15 4:55:37 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#47620: Dec 5th 2015 at 4:51:19 PM

It ended with Silvermane, in his debut, getting the tablet and kidnapping Dr. Conners to force him to make it. Silvermane drank the formula, started aging backwards, beat the hell out of Spidey, than de-aged into non-existence.

edited 5th Dec '15 4:55:12 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#47621: Dec 5th 2015 at 4:59:39 PM

Honestly Charles Atlas Superpower has to be one of the silliest tropes in the context of a shared superhero universe.

Hell I think it allowed modern Kingpin to fight Captain America to a draw.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#47622: Dec 5th 2015 at 5:00:15 PM

He chose... poorly.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Manaic Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#47623: Dec 5th 2015 at 5:10:30 PM

[up][up]Isn't comic book cap only "peak human" and the super soldier serum just meant he didn't have to train for it? I mean MVP got the same abilities though training

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#47624: Dec 5th 2015 at 5:22:24 PM

Let me see if I've got this right:

Kingpin = Captain America > Spider-man >>> Kingpin?!?

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#47625: Dec 5th 2015 at 5:27:12 PM

Spider-Man holds back a lot. If he could, he'd easily kill most of his enemies, but he doesn't because that'd be wrong.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

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