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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#47326: Dec 1st 2015 at 7:26:11 AM

(sighs) I shouldn't had stepped (even lightly) into the MCU-verse. I don't want to think Loki got shafted in the character development department cause it's tiring and I should have better things to do than feel (somewhat) outraged that an adopted fictional character turned dark.

Sometimes I think that the more creators want the audience to root for the good guys, they end up making more die-hard fans for bad guys.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#47327: Dec 1st 2015 at 8:27:10 AM

[up]I don't think that I follow you...what exactly is your issue with Loki?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#47328: Dec 1st 2015 at 8:28:40 AM

I should have better things to do than feel (somewhat) outraged that an adopted fictional character turned dark.
...huh? Loki was always dark. He's a supervillain.

I mean, I might understand if you were talking about comic book Loki, who has made a very well received Heel–Face Turn, but not MCU Loki, who, aside from his short-lived team-up with Thor, has never been anything other than a villain.

edited 1st Dec '15 8:28:51 AM by alliterator

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#47329: Dec 1st 2015 at 8:41:15 AM

Even mythology Loki was a humongous dick.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#47330: Dec 1st 2015 at 9:05:01 AM

Loki's always been a dick, basically.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#47331: Dec 1st 2015 at 9:08:43 AM

Although, with mythological Loki, he tends to be solidly in It Amused Me territory, while MCU Loki has the whole daddy issues thing going on.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#47332: Dec 1st 2015 at 9:29:10 AM

Mythological Loki was basically the god of being a dick. That one was loyal to Odin, but still a dick. He was also a mommy.

edited 1st Dec '15 9:29:31 AM by Zeromaeus

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#47333: Dec 1st 2015 at 9:35:25 AM

So if the rumors are true that Mantis is going to be in Gotg 2, do you think they'll focus more on her plant powers?

Martial artsyery seems redundant on a team with Gamora and plant powers would offer interesting character beats for interacting with Groot.

Or they could just go with psychic I guess.

But if they do go with plant powers, she could mention that she speaks for the trees leading Quill to laugh.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#47334: Dec 1st 2015 at 9:39:17 AM

[up]Unless James Gunn puts a kibosh on that rumor.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#47335: Dec 1st 2015 at 9:40:15 AM

I just want to believe

in Mantis.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#47336: Dec 1st 2015 at 9:41:49 AM

Loki is a dick has been my main impression for years, since MCU Thor 1.

But look at the MCU Wiki Loki page, which seems to present that green-blue eyes theory as canon. Right now, I'm not even sure if that theory is canon or

http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Loki

Then the deleted scenes... which just adds more fuel to the "Loki is misunderstood" debates.

Also, is it true that the Warriors 3 act like jock bullies to Loki, who is like a nerd just because he mainly prefers to fight with his wits rather than with muscles???

I decided to rewatch Thor 1 because I needed a refresher course on Odin's character. Odin seems to be the Dumbledore of the MCU fandom, so much hate of his parenting skills even though he was the one who decided to adopt Loki.

I fear researching more into this. On one hand, fandom loves putting leather pants on villains. But on the other hand, creators tend to depend too much on villains to get the story flowing.

edited 1st Dec '15 9:45:51 AM by probablyinsane

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#47337: Dec 1st 2015 at 9:45:25 AM

The Warriors 3 acting like jock bullies towards Loki is DEFINITELY fanon. They're Thor's close friends, but they never mistreated Loki in the first Thor movie. In the sequel, where everybody knows what he did in The Avengers, he's treated like a villain by basically everyone. Which he is.

probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#47338: Dec 1st 2015 at 9:50:44 AM

[up]

I still have to watch all of the deleted scenes, cause right now - the only scene I remember which even closely resembled teasing was when Loki failed to charm Heimdall.

There was also that deleted scene where it looked like Loki's magic inclinations was looked down upon. Will need to review.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#47339: Dec 1st 2015 at 9:52:18 AM

Should the deleted scenes even be counted? It's not like they're an active part of the text.

Oh God! Natural light!
DrFurball Since: Jan, 2001
#47340: Dec 1st 2015 at 9:52:50 AM

In fact, I got the impression from the first movie that Thor's main circle of friends consisted of Sif, the Warriors Three, and Loki. Y'know, like they all hung out together. It's not until he tries to start a war by committing genocide that they turn against him, which I think is understandable.

probablyinsane Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#47341: Dec 1st 2015 at 9:57:47 AM

[up][up]. Apparently, a common complaint about those deleted scenes is that they present Loki as more conflicted anti-villain whereas the final version has him more evil than anti-villain.

I would have to agree that the deleted scene wherein the other reminded him of the scepter made it look like Loki was under the scepter's mind control.

Also, atm, I think Thanos doesn't think much about the Mind Stone's powers if he's a-ok handing it off a recent recruit just to get another infinity stone.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#47342: Dec 1st 2015 at 10:00:49 AM

Well it seems to ne that once that portal was open he'd be able to easily stroll on through and get back the Tesseract and the Sceptre no problem. I mean obviously he would betray Loki and Loki wouldn't stand a chance.

The Blog The Art
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#47343: Dec 1st 2015 at 10:01:12 AM

Okay...I have holding back on this thing but this REALLY annoys me:

I am not a fan of the Draco in Leather Pants trope. But what the hell is so bad about the female audience fetishizing male villains? The Males get a boner over Catwoman in Burtons Batman, they cry for villains like the Enchantress getting included into the MCU, and let's not talk about the various fanarts showing female Disney Villains in sexy poses. On top of this, no one seems to mind that Marvel uses every opportunity to show off the six pack of various heroes (Thor, but also Peter). But if a woman feels attracted by an charismatic actor who happens to play an enigmatic villain, it is suddenly the worst thing ever. But in the end, the only difference is that woman are apparently somewhat aware that the character as he is, is toxic and therefore try to explain away this particular character trait, while males apparently don't care at all how evil a woman is, as long as she is sexy. Perhaps because they think more in the direction of sex while the females think more in the direction of long term relationships? I have no idea. But whatever the reason is, equal rights for everyone. You can get your butt-shot of Gamora, I get Chris Prat in orange water, and everyone is happy. And if someone is happy with thinking about possible alternate character interpretations for a character they consider attractive for whatever reason, let them.

All this aside, I actually think that the theory that Loki was under Thanos influence during The Avengers could result in some interesting story-telling down the line. As could the theory that he was in his right mind, but needed to device a plan in order to escape Thanos. I can totally see him pulling off this overly complicated plan with the final goal of ending up in Asgard eventually, one way or another. A storyline like this would fit the trickster he is perfectly. I can see him actually working on a plan to take out Thanos, not because he is a hero, but because it is the only way to be free of Thanos and/or his revenge once and for all.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#47344: Dec 1st 2015 at 10:02:46 AM

It's because "Women like the bad boys" has been a negative stereotype for a long time and people like to be judgmental about stereotypes even when it's nonsensical.

It's like fried chicken. Everybody eats fried chicken. Fried chicken is delicious. But when a black guy walks into a diner and orders fried chicken, all the white guys snicker even as they, themselves, are eating fried chicken.

edited 1st Dec '15 10:03:09 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#47345: Dec 1st 2015 at 10:03:58 AM

[up]What is funny about a black guy ordering chicken?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#47346: Dec 1st 2015 at 10:04:34 AM

"Black people eat fried chicken and watermelon" is another stereotype.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#47347: Dec 1st 2015 at 10:06:55 AM

It's a USA thing, Swanpride. In addition to the more familliar "we're crooks" stereotype there's also the food stereotypes. We love watermelon and friend chicken and kool-aid and grape soda apparently.

I mean, I do but so does everybody else.

The Blog The Art
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#47349: Dec 1st 2015 at 10:09:23 AM

I am not a fan of the Draco in Leather Pants trope. But what the hell is so bad about the female audience fetishizing male villains?

Did anyone on this page imply this?

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#47350: Dec 1st 2015 at 10:11:53 AM

Funny enough the "black people like fried chicken" stereotype apparently originated from Birth of a Nation, of all things.

As for the Draco in Leather Pants thing, I don't think there's anything wrong with just being attracted to Loki. It's that a lot of such fans tend to be active apologists for his dickish actions, and because they tend to slam other characters into the ground with Ron the Death Eater, which rubs a lot of people not in the character's Fan Dumb the wrong way for good reason. Whereas fanboys of evil women tend to find them sexy but are more likely to admit they're bad people at the same time. Which is still bad in its own way when their lack of interest in the characters' morality and actions is due to them seeing the characters as nothing more than sex objects.

edited 1st Dec '15 10:22:57 AM by AlleyOop


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