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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#47001: Nov 25th 2015 at 12:17:44 PM

Maybe they have to prove it's actually Bucky from the Howling Commandos and not some random guy who looks like him? What did they use for identification back in the 40s?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#47002: Nov 25th 2015 at 12:19:34 PM

You guys skipped the second question in my post: it appears there are people who simply want Bucky dead and don't care about a trial.

And if there was a trial l, there nothing to say that it would be fair. After all, how did Steve get that evidence?

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#47003: Nov 25th 2015 at 12:20:07 PM

Edit- Conversation has moved on a bit.

I don't know if Bucky would get a fair trial (and yeah, the trailer for Civil War implies that on account of being framed for a current crime, the attitude is pretty much shoot on sight).

However, he certainly should be cleared on account of duress.

edited 25th Nov '15 12:21:52 PM by Hodor2

Cross (Don’t ask)
#47004: Nov 25th 2015 at 12:21:11 PM

Can't them wanting Bucky dead be a result of him resisting arrest?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#47005: Nov 25th 2015 at 12:21:26 PM

Of course there's people who want Bucky dead. That's part of our three-pronged conflict next to the fact that those people also apparently framed him for something. It's presumably Zemo's Hydra, and possibly Ross giving his men orders to shoot first given his trigger-happy nature.

We were just discussing the hypothetical scenario of a fair and just trial for Buck.

edited 25th Nov '15 12:22:28 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#47006: Nov 25th 2015 at 12:38:26 PM

That Iron Man beat down is sadder once you realize that that's his good friend that his father "seemingly" loved more than him and the guy who probably killed his parents doing that to him.

Also factor in that it's two octogenarians kicking his ass.

edited 25th Nov '15 12:39:55 PM by MadSkillz

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#47007: Nov 25th 2015 at 12:44:37 PM

I think Bucky's actions while under Hydra's control might not even be the primary issue. If I'm reading the trailer right, I believe the real issue at stake is a horrific attack that takes place near the start of the movie that Bucky is framed for.

Which means, at least in the eyes of the public, he is either still under Hydra control or is killing innocent people of his own accord. Either option, combined with the reality of how deadly he is, could prompt a government response more along the lines of "shoot first and ask questions later" then Captain America is comfortable with.

As for who framed Bucky in the first place, that would almost certainly be Baron Zemo. Depending on how much of a chessmaster then want to make him in the MCU, it could be a case of him just trying to divert attention while he works on his master plan and things snowballing from there. Or it could be a case of him orchestrating the entire Civil War conflict from behind the scenes to try to destroy the Avengers from within so they can't stand in the way of whatever his real plans are.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#47008: Nov 25th 2015 at 12:48:05 PM

That's true. I mean Scarlet Witch did some pretty awful stuff and wasn't subject to mind control, and they still let her join the Avengers/remain in the United States.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#47009: Nov 25th 2015 at 12:53:30 PM

My impression was they covered up that it was Scarlet Witch's fault for those bad things that she was responsible for.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#47011: Nov 25th 2015 at 12:56:45 PM

I'd just like to point out that Ross cleans up very nice for a guy who had previously lost pretty much everything and was last seen a drunken wreck.

I hope we'll get a mention of Betty somewhere in there.

edited 25th Nov '15 12:57:16 PM by KnownUnknown

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#47012: Nov 25th 2015 at 1:02:51 PM

Well, he's had a few years to rinse up and find a new favorite bar.

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#47013: Nov 25th 2015 at 1:16:21 PM

[up]X4: Well Ultron did steal a mind control staff immediately before showing up with a pair of HYDRA test subjects as minions.

Both of whom would later be seen assisting in the evacuation of Sokovia.

You could spin that easy.

Assuming their minion status was public, of course. The only non-avengers who saw them working for Ultron were criminals who stole Vibranium from Wakanda. They could just be a pair of random metahumans from Sokovia who decided to save their home town. It happens.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#47014: Nov 25th 2015 at 1:18:24 PM

If they really delve into "you killed my dad" for Tony's motivations against Bucky, I hope they address the parallels with Wanda's own similar grudge against Tony in AOU, even if they do come to the conclusion in-universe that it's not quite the same. It'd be really lame to completely gloss over it and let him off the hook just because he's the MCU golden boy.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#47015: Nov 25th 2015 at 1:33:13 PM

Well, the Hulk more or less took the fall for Wanda. Other than letting him loose, she actually didn't do that much damage herself. Yes, she helped Ultron with Vision's body, but she also freed Dr. Cho from his influence in time. All the damage she did was indirect.

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#47016: Nov 25th 2015 at 1:48:58 PM

Actually, that's something I really hope they address when discussing the Accords, because it's a pretty glaring flaw in Age of Ultron.

There is basically no meaningful discussion about what Wanda has done in the name of vengeance after she helps out in Sokovia, and what if any punishment she should face.

Let's ignore that she is indirectly responsible for Ultron's creation, because that is indirect. She may have played on Stark's fears, but Stark himself made the choice to tamper with something beyond his means. That isn't, as far as I can tell, her fault.

She is, however, directly responsible for Hulk's rampage through a city of innocent people. She brainwashed him and let him run loose, and she did it willfully and maliciously in pursuit of misplaced retribution against Stark and the Avengers. That she is allowed to stay on the team without showing us any conversation about it and whether she should be arrested is a big issue, and if that's how the Avengers do things then clearly some kind of oversight is needed.

CitizenH Since: Feb, 2014
#47017: Nov 25th 2015 at 1:49:09 PM

"How would you prove in a court of law that he was being brainwashed?"

I'd hire both Jennifer Walters and Matt Murdock.

It would make for an entertaining Marvel One-Shot like 'All Hail to the King' and 'A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Thor's Hammer'.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#47018: Nov 25th 2015 at 2:13:43 PM

[up][up]Somehow I feel like the consequences of Wanda and Pietro's actions was a part of Age of Ultron that was cut out and thus forgotten about. Wanda wasn't even supposed to be on the final team in the original cut; it was going to be Carol Danvers.

edited 25th Nov '15 2:14:11 PM by Tuckerscreator

theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#47019: Nov 25th 2015 at 3:03:26 PM

For some reason they've also not gone after Sokovia for having a HYDRA base right on their doorstep.

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#47020: Nov 25th 2015 at 3:23:21 PM

Sokovia also blew up and fell in a lake.

Anyone who tried going after them would promptly become international pariahs.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#47021: Nov 25th 2015 at 3:40:58 PM

It's not like there haven't been Hydra bases all over the world...including America.

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#47022: Nov 25th 2015 at 3:44:24 PM

It's not like they're in an east european country that was probably actually taken over by nazis during WW 2.

After all, that base could have been there since WW 2. HYDRA was running SHIELD, they could have swept it under the radar. OR swept enough of it under the radar that the raid left it intact enough to bring back online with minimal difficulty and without alerting Sokovia.

But then, Sokovia didn't seem to much like the avengers anyway.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#47023: Nov 25th 2015 at 3:55:13 PM

LMAO at the super hero movie prediction for 2016

edited 25th Nov '15 3:55:34 PM by MadSkillz

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#47024: Nov 25th 2015 at 3:58:29 PM

Marvel Studios is probably at least a tier of Hulk in terms of market dominance. DD

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#47025: Nov 25th 2015 at 4:03:21 PM

Fox is definitely the weakest of the three remaining superhero-movie studios (with Sony having tapped out). Even its best-performing comic book movies have made substantially less than Man Of Steel, never mind Avengers.

BVS did earn more than Civil War, so it's really down to how much people's interest in seeing the rest of the Avengers compares to their interest in seeing Batman fight Superman. I'd bet on Civil War, though, given that Man Of Steel had a pretty mixed reception among viewers and critics alike, and given that the trailers for BVS have been uninspiring to say the least. Warner Brothers seems to be betting that way too, given that they moved it back to March in order to get away from Civil War. Moving it to March rather than to the summer months doesn't indicate confidence.

It's striking just how repetitive the superhero movies are getting. All the studios are doing a mix of big team-up movies and smaller solo ones in 2015. Both Marvel and DC are doing big blockbusters where their main heroes fight each other. Both DC and Fox are doing smaller, darker, villain-protagonist (or really dark anti-hero) movies (Suicide Squad and Deadpool).

edited 25th Nov '15 4:10:59 PM by Galadriel


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