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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#46826: Nov 23rd 2015 at 10:54:00 AM

"Jessica should have killed Kilgrave" pretty much states Killgrave survives the season intact, which is a pretty massive spoiler and the quoted passage more or less elaborates what happens in a plotline and why it's a problem.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#46827: Nov 23rd 2015 at 10:56:05 AM

Well, she actually does kill him at the end. Which I guess would make that sort of a reverse spoilers.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#46828: Nov 23rd 2015 at 10:56:24 AM

"Jessica should have killed Kilgrave" pretty much states Killgrave survives the season intact
And if Kilgrave had survived the season in tact, that'd be a problem!

I really just meant "Jessica should've tried to kill Kilgrave from the outset", which, y'know, isn't a spoiler, since we establish she doesn't want to do that almost immediately.

edited 23rd Nov '15 10:57:08 AM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#46829: Nov 23rd 2015 at 10:58:14 AM

I don't consider Rosalind to be a villain. Antagonistic, but not the season villain. Kind of like Talbot. And Coulson's far more willing to work with her.

They played up the "maybe she's HYDRA" angle for most of an episode, but she genuinely seemed to be completely in the dark about her connection there. Or else she wouldn't have given him up so easily.

The season's Big Bad seems to be Ward, really.

EDIT: Also, her husband's death has nothing to do with her actions on the show. It informs her character, but hunting down inhumans isn't personal for her. Cancer killed her husband, not people with superpowers.

edited 23rd Nov '15 10:59:48 AM by BadWolf21

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#46830: Nov 23rd 2015 at 11:03:20 AM

I doubt that we have seen the last reveal concerning Rosalind yet. It is entirely possible that she is playing Coulson now. As a general rule, there is always something else waiting just around the corner.

stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#46831: Nov 23rd 2015 at 11:06:09 AM

[up][up]Her husband's death is used as the reason she's all for putting the Inhumans in stasis until a cure is found.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#46832: Nov 23rd 2015 at 11:15:17 AM

[up][up]

If there's another reveal left, I think it'll probably be her true name. "Rosalind Price" is just one of many aliases, which means she might secretly be someone from the comics.

edited 23rd Nov '15 11:15:33 AM by Falrinn

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#46833: Nov 23rd 2015 at 11:22:21 AM

Given that we started the season with Rosalind as the possible Big Bad and have now moved away from that with the revelation that the corruption is above her pay grade, I don't think we're going to go back to having her as a villainous presence. I don't see the point in that from a storytelling perspective. Her methods will probably always clash with our heroes' and it's possible that by the end of the season she'll cross a line that makes them sever ties for good, but I don't think we're ever going to get back on the "Rosalind is secretly evil" train. It's redundant.

edited 23rd Nov '15 11:22:46 AM by BadWolf21

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#46834: Nov 23rd 2015 at 11:48:44 AM

I found a few plothole related issues with Jessica Jones, yeah. I didn't even realize the neighbor still blows herself up despite Kilgrave being out cold one, though. And it can't be that his powers still work when he's under that drug, because the only reason he hired paid security in the first place was because he knew if he was drugged any brainwashed bodyguards would immediately be freed.

Anyway, I feel like some of the characters aren't always true to themselves, or their development doesn't work right.

Malcolm goes from months-long mind-control victim and exhausted drug-addict to well-functioning, flawless member of society literally overnight, if not faster, which is sorta absurd. No signs of withdrawal or anything.

Detective Whatshisname goes from being held at gunpoint and cuffed to a pipe by people who are electrocuting a guy in a cell to "okay, friends, what do we do?" rather unbelievably fast.

Kilgrave's father barely seems to care at all about his wife dying; he gives one token "oh god" upon seeing her corpse, then he's cheerily working toward the vaccine. Furthermore, them tying his hands behind his back to stop him from stabbing himself is inconsistent with how Kilgrave's powers are portrayed. He shouldn't be able to focus, he should be singlemindedly obsessed with getting out of his bindings and stabbing himself, or breaking down in a mess trying to pick up the scissors with his feet or teeth. Trish didn't give up trying to "put a bullet in her head" just because the gun was empty, after all.

Simpson... I guess you can blame the drugs, but I feel like he jumped from "protecting the innocent from Kilgrave" to "shooting random innocents in the head and trying to kill Jessica for no reason" a bit too fast to make sense, after several episodes of being stagnant. I get what kind of story arc they were going for with him but it felt really badly paced.

Also, what happened to the other two members of the support group after Robyn rallies them? We see Trendy Guy and Mr. Chauffeur go after Jessica, but Cellist and Smile Lady just disappear off the face of the earth and are never mentioned again.

This one's more of a nitpick, but the guy whom Kilgrave orders to stand and stare at a fence forever, wouldn't somebody have hauled him away or called the police once he had been standing in a puddle of his own urine crying and shivering for hours?

edited 23rd Nov '15 11:55:14 AM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#46835: Nov 23rd 2015 at 11:52:42 AM

I've bought fully into Rosalind's sincerity at this point. I think she came in with a lot of pomp and bluster in the beginning but was in completely over her head so far as the Spy v. Spy game goes. I'm sure she has a lot of skills - leadership, for instance - but deception does not seem to be one of them. We - and Coulson - made the mistake of treating her like a master spy playing a careful game of cat and mouse when she was really just a talented professional reassigned to a field she's not very experienced in.

It's possible that she could just be a really, really good actor, but I just don't think so. I think her obvious attempts at social manipulation really were just that: obvious attempts by a relative amateur. I think she genuinely did grow fond of Coulson and that when she was trying to get him to like her, it wasn't for any ulterior motive. I think Gideon Malick selected her because she's a terrible liar and is much more inclined to play people straight, and that makes her organization look better by association.

She's not the Abigail Brand expy we were all expecting. She's a glorified figurehead who's too honest for her own good in a position where everyone around her has secrets buried within secrets.

edited 23rd Nov '15 11:55:53 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#46836: Nov 23rd 2015 at 12:01:14 PM

I'm not so sure about that, either.

I think she is a good spy. Perhaps not as good as Coulson (who, frankly, is not great at it either sometimes; at least nowhere near as good as Fury), but still good at what she does. But I think she let go of it much earlier than Coulson did. Her "attempts at social manipulation" were mostly not even that.

Like, when he called her out on playing mind games in her apartment, it's pretty obvious that she wasn't. He's just too wrapped up in the spy game to realize that they genuinely do have a lot in common.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#46837: Nov 23rd 2015 at 12:25:49 PM

She admitted when he called her out in the apartment that she was, in fact, trying to manipulate him into liking her. He judged that scene accurately. She even displayed her ignorance when she told him she was surprised he wasn't listening in on her cop conversation, because that's her innocent, amateurish impression of how spies work.

He was just mistaken about the "why" because after so many years in this game, one learns to scrutinize everything for conspiracy and subterfuge. He has difficulty understanding simple, straightforward motives like, "I think you're cool and would like to get to know you."

At its heart, that's been the central conflict in Coulson and Price's development. She initially came out trying to act like a master spy, so Coulson's been treating her like one. But she's not.

edited 23rd Nov '15 12:31:13 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#46838: Nov 23rd 2015 at 12:37:59 PM

She admitted it because he wouldn't believe her if she told the truth. She's visibly upset that he would think that of her, and when he's talking about how the bat was clearly something she'd had purchased to appeal to him, she starts to say "That's actually..." before he cuts her off. It probably belonged to her late husband, if it's not hers in the first place. And given that she's later impressed by all the historical junk in his office, it very well could be hers.

She was being the master spy early on, but I think the agreement to work together was mostly in good faith, and she's been as genuine as someone in her position can be since then.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#46839: Nov 23rd 2015 at 12:45:40 PM

She was trying to be the master spy before that but the extent of her spywork was the word, "No." No, you can't see my facility. No, you can't overrule my directive.

She's been as subtle as a sledgehammer in her dealings both with Coulson and with the Inhumans, operating the ATCU as a fairly straightforward military organization rather than a spy network. She's more likely to kick in the door and go in guns blazing than to send a man undercover to root out confidential information. The only reason she ever had the vague impression of an upper hand is because her organization is legally legitimate and his isn't, and all of her initial advantages were rooted in this.

She really gives off the impression that this just isn't her world, and I think that's the entire point of why Gideon hired her. She's sincere which makes her easy to trust, and that makes her organization look sincere and easy to trust.

edited 23rd Nov '15 12:47:49 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#46840: Nov 23rd 2015 at 12:50:45 PM

based on this rumor the ATCU would be taking over the Avengers jumping from inhumans to regulating all superheros

http://www.australianetworknews.com/agents-shield-season-3-finale-shocking-twists-revealed/

yea its a big wtf bullshit you people need to stop

edited 23rd Nov '15 12:51:08 PM by xbimpy

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#46841: Nov 23rd 2015 at 1:26:30 PM

Even if it's bullshit, please spoiler tag that entire thing, please.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#46842: Nov 23rd 2015 at 1:37:33 PM

xbimpy, why don't you spoiler tag? I'm pretty sure people would like you too.

Oh God! Natural light!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#46843: Nov 23rd 2015 at 2:00:15 PM

Here, [[spoiler: ]]. Just put it inside those brackets.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#46844: Nov 23rd 2015 at 5:48:35 PM

I was thinking about the Netflix shows and I just thought about something. Who would win in a fight Jessica or Daredevil?

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#46845: Nov 23rd 2015 at 5:50:21 PM

Well, Matt is far more skilled, so he's got that going for him.

My various fanfics.
yellowturtle from Nowhere Important Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#46846: Nov 23rd 2015 at 5:52:34 PM

I think it would be Matt. Jessica could easily overpower him, but I don't think that she would be able to take him down very quickly.

Crow: There's a plot?
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#46847: Nov 23rd 2015 at 5:52:57 PM

[up][up]Daredevil, if his armor holds up.

Cross (Don’t ask)
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#46850: Nov 23rd 2015 at 5:55:13 PM

I'd have to give it to Matt. Jessica struggled with Simpson, who has extensive combat training but no superpowers, and Matt has his enhanced senses on top of his insane martial prowess.

If she managed to land a blow Matt's frail body could very well be taken out in one hit, but her sloppy fighting style wouldn't be able to land that hit. And now that he has his lightweight bodyarmor his one weakness is pretty well covered.

The only person who posed a significant physical threat to Matt one-on-one was Nobu. Even Kingpin only lasted as long as he did because of his insane bulk and armor.

edited 23rd Nov '15 5:58:59 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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