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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

yellowturtle from Nowhere Important Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#46651: Nov 19th 2015 at 5:46:14 PM

[up][up][up][up] Nope. He was in the room, if I remember right, but Mac still had the axe from his supercrazyaxemarathon.

Crow: There's a plot?
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#46652: Nov 19th 2015 at 6:02:25 PM

Through the miracle of officially licensed merchandise, we can get a better look at MCU!Daredevil, albeit in Super-Deformed proportions.

I quite like the MCU's take on the Red Suit. True, it does sort of remind me of Ant-Man if it had horns instead of a helmet, but I still quite like its armor-y appearance a lot more than what we got back in 2003.

I also can't help but think it's kinda weird that the Kingpin's bobble head calls him Wilson Fisk, but I guess it makes sense since no one really refers to Fisk as the Kingpin in the series. Still weird though. tongue

Speaking of Kingpin, you guys think Daredevil season 2 will be when Fisk gets his title of "The Kingpin"? I can already picture him getting it after thrashing a bunch of yutzes in jail and the spectators are chanting "King-pin, King-pin, King-pin...." in fear and amazement.

edited 19th Nov '15 6:43:00 PM by TargetmasterJoe

Cross (Don’t ask)
#46653: Nov 19th 2015 at 6:07:51 PM

Those really are adorable, if they're really making a Foggy one they should add Wesley and Karen as well.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#46654: Nov 19th 2015 at 6:30:28 PM

They have goddamned Funkos for everything now.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#46655: Nov 19th 2015 at 6:42:54 PM

My only real issue with the Daredevil suit is that it's a bit too Batman-y. Especially on top of Matt's over-the-top scratchy voice when he's Daredeviling and obsession with his no killing rule.

But I guess there's no real way around that.

Anyway, for characters I'd like to see...

I definitely want to see She-Hulk, though she's in a somewhat awkward position. Besides the rights issues with Hulk, she's difficult in that her general tone works better as a TV series but the budget would be too high.

I also support Taskmaster, and want him to be a sort of general-purpose MCU henchman rather than get killed off in his first movie. Also want to see if they can find a way to adapt Armless Tiger Man, if only for how absurd a concept he is.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#46656: Nov 19th 2015 at 6:49:19 PM

What over the top scratchy voice? What????

Charlie Cox doesn't use a scratchy voice as Daredevil. Are you serious?

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#46657: Nov 19th 2015 at 6:49:21 PM

Oh yeah, forgot about who I'd want to see in the MCU.

Honestly, I would want to see Squirrel Girl, Ms. Marvel, Nova, Taskmaster, Moon Knight, She-Hulk, and Ghost Rider.

Would anyone object if I added Gwen Stacy to my list?

EDIT: [up][up], yeah, I don't remember Charlie Cox using a scratchy voice as Daredevil either...

edited 19th Nov '15 6:51:02 PM by TargetmasterJoe

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#46658: Nov 19th 2015 at 7:41:55 PM

It's not like eats-a-bowl-of-nails-for-breakfast Batman scratchy voice, but it's there. Especially when he confronts Kingpin at the end.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#46660: Nov 20th 2015 at 7:15:57 AM

My only real issue with the Daredevil suit is that it's a bit too Batman-y. Especially on top of Matt's over-the-top scratchy voice when he's Daredeviling and obsession with his no killing rule.

And his failure to acknowledge he totally violated it?

DareDevil lit a man on fire and he burned to death, Batman kills someone in every movie in the Dark Knight Trilogy.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#46661: Nov 20th 2015 at 7:17:33 AM

Daredevil killing Nobu was an accident.

yellowturtle from Nowhere Important Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#46662: Nov 20th 2015 at 7:41:32 AM

It was an accident, but it still happened.

Crow: There's a plot?
xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#46663: Nov 20th 2015 at 7:59:44 AM

nobu died a glorious death. the way of the ninja! it was an honor - "Each man must stand for himself, or fall with the unworthy".

really the showrunner implied that nobu's death is an unintentional result of matt defending himself. yes nobu was on fire, but still alive when fisk showed up except fisk said let him burn.

plus hand ninjas are normally burned anyway because they "rise" from the ashes. i have to re-watch the later episodes but i believe madame goa said something about his people will prepare his body.

in the comics matt has killed people. the count is very very very low though and by accident. one was rectoned into typhoid marry. he kicked a hoe out the window

edited 20th Nov '15 8:04:03 AM by xbimpy

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#46664: Nov 20th 2015 at 9:11:56 AM

Dare Devil killing Nobu wasn't an accident, it was a consequence of violence. When two people are intent on pummeling each other until one is no longer capable of fighting, permanent disability and death are possible consequences. Tripping over a ladder and having it fall on a person is an accident. Winning a violent altercation so hard that the other party is no longer breathing is a combat kill.

This is the inherent problem with "Never Kill Codes": they sometimes require some leaps of logic to justify how you totally didn't kill that person who died from your attacks. Trying to minimize harm and using only reasonable amounts of force is one thing, but if your goal is to never kill anybody and your M.O. is violence, you're going to run into some conflicts.

edited 20th Nov '15 9:17:12 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#46665: Nov 20th 2015 at 9:21:37 AM

Daredevil totally killed Nobu, but he killed him out of self defense. That's the difference: previously, he was contemplating killing Fisk not in self defense, but in cold blood. With Nobu, it was literally kill or be killed.

And yes, Daredevil has always walked on that knife edge of being a killer. In fact, Daredevil: Born Again has a scene where he says "Forgive me" and blows up a helicopter with a rocket launcher because it was shooting up Hell's Kitchen.

edited 20th Nov '15 9:21:58 AM by alliterator

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#46666: Nov 20th 2015 at 9:24:36 AM

[up] That.

"Never Murder" is a more attainable goal than "Never Kill" for an enforcer of law. They may sound similar, but the two are very different.

An unfortunate fact of violence is that it's easier to kill someone than to non-lethally disable them. The latter requires at least some level of skill, technology, or ability beyond your opponent. When your back is against the wall, when you're the underdog, when you're simply outmatched, the lethal strike is sometimes the only option.

edited 20th Nov '15 9:26:52 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#46667: Nov 20th 2015 at 9:28:06 AM

[up][up]The problem is that Nobu's death is never acknowledged. His death was, to some extend, understandable, but Matt never seem to realize that. It is kinda off putting.

[up]I wouldn't call Daredevil an "enforcer of law" myself.tongue

edited 20th Nov '15 9:29:01 AM by Heatth

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#46668: Nov 20th 2015 at 9:29:19 AM

As I recall, what happened is Matt threw Nobu's weapon back at him. Nobu deflected it, causing the weapon to fly upward and hit a light fixture, causing sparks to rain down and setting Nobu (who had been doused in flammable chemicals) on fire. So, technically, Nobu died as a result of his own actions; if he'd let Matt's attack hit him, he would have lived.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#46669: Nov 20th 2015 at 9:29:52 AM

[up][up] Agreed. It's the very next episode, I believe, in which Matt insists he's never killed anybody. Not that he's never deliberately murdered. Never killed.

Given how beaten to hell he was after the Nobu fight, I could respect that he doesn't actually remember what happened other than occasional flashes, but I would have appreciated it coming back up in some way. I'm hoping that when The Hand moves in, this will be addressed.

edited 20th Nov '15 9:30:08 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46670: Nov 20th 2015 at 9:30:27 AM

[up][up]That, and it's still unclear if Matt knew Nobu died at all.

edited 20th Nov '15 9:30:43 AM by VeryMelon

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#46671: Nov 20th 2015 at 9:31:19 AM

Bring Back Nobu 2017! Zombie Nobu!

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#46672: Nov 20th 2015 at 9:43:12 AM

[up][up][up]Oh, yeah, I could totally believe Matt just never realized what happened. But it sucks the show never stated that. A simple line about Matt not remembering well what happened to the ninja would suffice.

[up][up][up][up]I honestly don't think Matt would see things that way. Nobu died as a consequence of the fight. Daredevil is not free from that blame. If he hadn't fought, Nobu wouldn't have died.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#46673: Nov 20th 2015 at 9:49:23 AM

Here's the fight in question.

Nobu breaks out my favorite weapon ever, the kusari-gama, and - as is almost always the case with this particular weapon when it appears in fiction - constantly uses it incorrectly. At one point, Nobu gets his hook in Murdock and Murdock kicks Nobu into the barrels that doused him in gasoline, then the fight continues. Shortly after, Nobu throws his gama at Murdock like an asshole whose fight choreographer thought this was a cool weapon but never researched how it's used, and Murdock deflects it up into the light, setting Nobu on fire.

edited 20th Nov '15 9:50:37 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#46674: Nov 20th 2015 at 12:04:27 PM

I also felt like the show itself tries to frame the scene as if it's not Matt's fault, which I thought was kind of strange.

Like, during the fight they make it clear that Nobu could have put himself out rather than continuing to fight, and after Matt escapes they show that Fisk could have saved him but decided not to - which I took as them trying to make it look to the audience as if the fault for his death lies on Nobu himself and Fisk and not on Matt. Them not acknowledging Matt having done it later clinched it for me.

Or that they wanted to have their cake and eat it too in regards to Matt (barely) defeating a ninja, but halfway through realized he wasn't supposed to be killing anyone and didn't know how to reconcile the two.

edited 20th Nov '15 12:05:53 PM by KnownUnknown

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#46675: Nov 20th 2015 at 12:06:30 PM

What episode did the showrunner switchover happen? I suspect it might've simply gotten lost in the fray when DeKnight took over from Goddard.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.

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