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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#46026: Nov 4th 2015 at 9:34:09 AM

Hmm. Do you have any evidence? Proof, maybe? No?

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#46027: Nov 4th 2015 at 9:36:59 AM

Well, that came out of nowhere. And is completely bullshit by the way, considering the Wasp was originally going to be there too.

HextarVigar That guy from The Big House Since: Feb, 2015
That guy
#46028: Nov 4th 2015 at 9:38:06 AM

She served no purpose. Shit, her role could have been covered by a SHIELD agent.

The Wasp at least has powers.

edited 4th Nov '15 9:39:21 AM by HextarVigar

Your momma's so dumb she thinks oral sex means talking dirty.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#46029: Nov 4th 2015 at 9:40:03 AM

Not many SHIELD agents have a Dark and Troubled Past with the Soviets nor the ability to fool literal gods of lies.

I mean, I don't see anybody saying that Nick Fury was in the movie only so a black guy would be in it, or that he could've been replaced by any agent.

edited 4th Nov '15 9:41:36 AM by Tuckerscreator

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#46030: Nov 4th 2015 at 9:43:35 AM

Black Widow is a Weak, but Skilled Guile Hero Combat Pragmatist when everybody else relies on raw (fire)power, or fills a really small niche they're not very useful outside of (Hawkeye, who got bodied in his one-on-one fight with her because she's just better). Nobody ever says the Spy from Team Fortress 2 is useless just because he doesn't do well in one-on-one missions. And not every aspect of superheroing is direct combat. Sometimes you need someone who's good with words and attacking from within, as The Winter Soldier did perfectly..

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#46031: Nov 4th 2015 at 9:43:59 AM

To be fair, Nick Really didn't need to try and shoot down the missile near the end of the movie. THAT is giving a character something to do for the sake of giving them something to do.

stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#46032: Nov 4th 2015 at 9:46:40 AM

[up]x4: Well, Widow is a SHIELD agent. So of course her role could be filled by a SHIELD agent. Same way Hulk's role could be filled by a giant green rage monster.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#46033: Nov 4th 2015 at 9:48:21 AM

And instead of Iron Man, we could have had a brilliant engineer piloting a weaponized flight suit who speaks entirely in one liners.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#46034: Nov 4th 2015 at 9:48:34 AM

This just in. There's a rumor (started by myself) that the reason why the Hulk won't be in Civil War is that he's being replaced on the Avengers by the Abomination.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#46035: Nov 4th 2015 at 9:49:23 AM

So someone watched The Consultant and went, "I could start a rumor based on this!" I wonder who that could have been, HMMMM? tongue

edited 4th Nov '15 9:49:39 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#46036: Nov 4th 2015 at 9:51:07 AM

Never seen that actually. Was actually thinking partly of the inflated rumors about Iron Fist not being given a show leading to the "conclusion" that the Punisher would be one of the Defenders.

And that coupled with the idea of replacing the Hulk with another Green Rage Monster.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#46037: Nov 4th 2015 at 9:51:37 AM

She served no purpose. Shit, her role could have been covered by a SHIELD agent.
She served quite a big purpose. Did you miss the part where she saved the day and closed the portal by herself? Or the part where she tricked the God of Lies?

Jeez, if you don't like Black Widow, just say "I don't like Black Widow," don't make up reasons, especially ones that make no sense.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#46038: Nov 4th 2015 at 9:54:08 AM

Not to mention, her role being "resident SHIELD Agent" is arguably the point: she's the Team superspy. She brings guile, covert tactics and especially gaming the enemy / intelligence gathering to the fold - skills which are often essential and which ideally none of the others should be very good at.

In Avengers 1 we see this with her being the one to interrogate Loki, and in her being the one to figure out how to close the portal. In Ultron, Whedon apparently forget that and made her more of a Captain America-esque / beating up armies of thugs on the frontline sort of character. He did the same thing with Hawkeye.

Perhaps he thought outside the context of SHIELD Widow shouldn't act like a spy any more or something, but imo it didn't work.

edited 4th Nov '15 9:55:24 AM by KnownUnknown

HextarVigar That guy from The Big House Since: Feb, 2015
That guy
#46039: Nov 4th 2015 at 9:56:54 AM

That's my point.

She not a front-line character. You don't toss her in a battlefield and say "Go. Play."

Your momma's so dumb she thinks oral sex means talking dirty.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#46040: Nov 4th 2015 at 10:02:24 AM

She was doing pretty alright against a horde of Chitauri and then Ultron robots. She can be plenty frontline. And if she's not, who cares? Her entire schtick is about spying and sneak attacks. Hawkeye isn't exactly front-line either. Insisting every Avenger be a frontliner is ridiculous. It's like when people were claiming Captain America was "useless" merely because he wasn't quite as strong as Thor or Iron Man.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#46041: Nov 4th 2015 at 10:10:30 AM

She not a front-line character. You don't toss her in a battlefield and say "Go. Play."
So that's your reason for saying that "The only reason Black Widow is even in these movies is because every team-based movie has to have a chick in a saucy outfit"? Yeah, I'm thinking not.

edited 4th Nov '15 10:10:36 AM by alliterator

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#46042: Nov 4th 2015 at 10:12:34 AM

In the comics, Widow's a super-soldier spy just like Fury. She's been around for decades and can fill a variety of different roles if she needs to be. Who's to say that she can't be on the front lines?

Listen, just admit you don't like Black Widow, but don't give reasons why Black Widow shouldn't be in the films that are completely bullshit.

edited 4th Nov '15 10:15:07 AM by higherbrainpattern

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#46043: Nov 4th 2015 at 10:29:40 AM

Honestly, who is spreading those rumors? I mean, I can actually see them putting Iron Fist's origin story in a movie, simply because I wondered how Netflix plans to juggle all those shows with only two release dates every year. But replacing it with a punisher show? We haven't even seen Punisher on screen yet.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#46045: Nov 4th 2015 at 10:39:49 AM

[up][up] I think it's going from the idea that Marvel considered having Iron Fist in a movie/potentially had problems casting him in a show to the fact that the Punisher is showing up in Daredevil- ergo, the Punisher will be one of the Defenders.

Besides the iffy logic, I can't really see him being on the team. The Punisher is not a team player and can't really see the others wanting him on their team. I mean I could definitely see Murdoch, Jones, or Cage letting the odd Sympathetic Murderer go, but actively working on a team with a guy who goes around killing people?

edited 4th Nov '15 10:41:15 AM by Hodor2

Joesolo Indiana Solo Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
#46046: Nov 4th 2015 at 10:40:12 AM

Minor nit pick "Thor is a god. "

They're not, even Odin's said they're not. Powerful, nigh immortal by human standards, etc, sure. But not a god

I'm baaaaaaack
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#46047: Nov 4th 2015 at 10:42:15 AM

Even Loki only thinks he's a god compared to humans.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#46048: Nov 4th 2015 at 10:53:03 AM

[up][up][up] I have a feeling any team up between the Punisher and the other Defenders will be a Godzilla Threshold situation. He won't actually formally be a Defender by any practical definition.

edited 4th Nov '15 10:54:00 AM by Falrinn

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#46049: Nov 4th 2015 at 11:03:47 AM

You're assuming there's gonna be such a thing as being "formally" a Defender. It's entirely possible that the characters never actually decide to become a group and call themselves the Defenders; they just all happen to get involved in the same plotline at the same time, and once it's resolved, they go their separate ways.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#46050: Nov 4th 2015 at 11:07:38 AM

[up]Maybe. I'm mostly saying that in any sense the Defenders exist as a coherent entity, the Punisher won't be part of it. It could be something as simple as him not showing up until a couple episodes after the core team starts working together.


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