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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Just to reiterate, I don't want ALL the movie villains to be like that. Just the superpowered Mooks.
I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.I'd disagree with that. Shocker (along the lines of Sandman and Rhino in Spectacular Spider-Man is generic in the sense that he commits mundane crimes and doesn't kill anyone, and so he's someone you can have Spidey web up repeatedly and handwave his not being in prison.
On the other hand, Shocker is a bit of an Evil Counterpart to Peter- he's similalry a genius inventor that lacks the drive to make something of his talents- with the obvious difference that Peter fails mostly because of Samaritan Syndrome whereas Shocker fails because he finds it easier to be a criminal.
But you could very easily have a story with Shocker as the viewpoint character/protagonist- he'd be ideal for the proposed Sinister Six movie idea. I wouldn't say the same of Rhino.
edited 3rd Nov '15 11:36:00 AM by Hodor2
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Because they want the fantastical elements of the MCU to be more fleshed out without having to spend two hours building up characters that will be dead when the credits start rolling anyway.
What's funny is that the movie Electro was basically Ultimate Shocker. A down on his luck scientist with self esteem issues because his bosses stole his ideas and treat him like shit.
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For the Sinister Six to work I think you need to have a villain who is somewhat sympathetic despite being a crook. Which is why I think positioning Harry as the leader was a stupid decision, since the movie version of Harry was basically a Complete Monster with zero redeeming features.
edited 3rd Nov '15 11:40:06 AM by comicwriter
People want supervillains with no real connection to the plot because it both allows the hero to do superheroing without needing to have an entire plot centered around it, helps with the worldbuilding by establishing that there are new threats and villains popping up all the time beyond those related to the heroes' actions, and in general helps dispel the idea of the heroes acting within a vacuum.
More supervillain career criminals that don't have to be the biggest, most personal threat the heroes face, while also not needing to be the center of the plot, could definitely do the universe some good.
Even if they're not entirely unconnected, characters like Batroc are a good example of how to do a small time but largely independent villain that exists mostly so the hero can do some disconnected heroing. He turns out to be linked to the main plot, but neither the heroes, nor the audience nor even himself are aware of that at the time.
It works better on some heroes than others (it'd contrast what they've been doing with the Hulk, for example) but, say, Tony could have used it: both to help establish that Iron Man had taken the role of protector against threats regular people couldn't face (which gets a lot of lip service), and so that Tony could actually face a villain that didn't only exist because of him or his family for once. Especially since the bulk of his Rogues Gallery are practically designed to be in that character niche in the first place.
It's a concept that really works with Spider-Man because swooping onto the scene and cheerfully taking out random criminals and supervillains is basically his version of Batman's Mook Horror Show character establishment scenes - it's one of the iconic things he does.
edited 3rd Nov '15 12:05:15 PM by KnownUnknown
"I have successfully privatized World Peace."
"How?"
"....AC/DC! BURGER KING! IRON MAN OUT!"
My various fanfics.They gave you just enough information so that you gave a shit about him. And he was also one of my favorite things in the movie.
My various fanfics.Yeah. Like I said, Batroc is a good example of doing that with a character if you don't quite what want them unconnected from the plot - he's largely incidental but obliviously plays a vital role in things he has no scope of.
He's one of my favorite parts of the movie too.
edited 3rd Nov '15 11:57:23 AM by KnownUnknown
The analysis I'd read said it was less about having more shallow or generic villains but just showing that there are threats out there other than the ones directly connected to (or caused by) the heroes.
And they still tied him to the central narrative just enough. He was the cold open villain to establish Cap and Widow's abilities, but the battle against him and his men was also used to establish the conflict between Cap's worldview and the way S.H.I.E.L.D. operates, and it was later revealed to be part of Fury's play to uncover Hydra. Batroc had no relationship with the villain but his sequence had a ton of narrative worth to the film.
That's important because film is nothing like a serial format, like comics or television. Every minute of screentime counts because you don't get much of it. A complete story has to be done in 1.5-2.5 hours - the equivalent of two episodes of television.
All of the characters have to be introduced and established, the conflict has to be built up, fantastic elements have to be explained to such an extent that the audience has at least some understanding of what's happening on the screen, and then everything needs to be resolved satisfactorily - every character arc concluded, the villain defeated in a climactic finish, etc. All in less time than it takes to play Portal.
Time comes at a high premium in film. You might spend fifteen minutes establishing that the Shocker is robbing a bank, having Peter bow out of class or his date or whatever to go fight Shocker, and then showing Shocker be defeated. That's fifteen minutes the film will never get back. That's upwards of 10-20% of your film wasted on a character who has no bearing on the story being told.
This is what makes Batroc so effective: because even though Batroc himself had no relevance to the main plot, none of his screentime was wasted. He wasn't important to the overarching story, but everything that happened during the fight with him was.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.None of the villains in The Dark Knight Trilogy had superpowers either. They were all just dudes who wanted to do asshole things.
Even then, with no need to explain where a character got their earth-shattering superpowers, the first film still featured an origin story for the Scarecrow as a C-plot, the second spent its entire run-time as an origin for Two-Face, and the third prominently explored the backstories of Bane and Talia during its second act.
And that's not getting into all the exposition on the League of Shadows. The only villains who showed up fully-formed to the party were the Joker and Catwoman, and the latter only half counts.
edited 3rd Nov '15 12:20:07 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I agree with Tobias. Batroc was very effective.
Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau ProjectWhat was his purpose again? Something with Nick fury again.
http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Georges_Batroc
his material warrants an appearance on agents of shield.
edited 3rd Nov '15 6:13:02 PM by xbimpy

Yeah, Rhino was basically what a lot of people want from the Marvel movies. A villain who doesn't have a huge backstory and doesn't contribute to the plot in ways that his character lacks the weight to believably do.
My various fanfics.