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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#45801: Oct 31st 2015 at 12:37:05 PM

Wait, her alcoholism is a consequence of that story?

Yeah, no. No matter what kind of depth it could add to her character, nothing that came from that monstrosity should be touched with a 10 foot pole.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#45802: Oct 31st 2015 at 12:40:13 PM

And I really, really don't want to see THAT storyline.

Since She-Hulk is currently unlikely to appear, and Janet is still stuck whereever (plus, they might not write her with an upbeat personality), I think we really, really need a Superheroine who simply enjoys her ability and uses them responsible. A counterpoint to Jessica Jones.

edited 31st Oct '15 12:41:05 PM by Swanpride

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#45803: Oct 31st 2015 at 12:41:58 PM

i told you she was raped. alcohol was just a side effect, not a factor to strength the person's choice to sexually assault her. there are stories where the opposite has happened and im not talking about superhero fiction alone. a victim coping not by substance abuse but something else though the perpetrator uses to help carry out their action.

[up] you kinda sound like this guy http://mspoliticallycorrect.tumblr.com/post/97593464456/more-than-anything-i-hate-grimdark-i-hate-how. Tim Burton said we need happier superheros last year. someone who isnt an onion knight but thats more DC heroes. marvel doesnt have much captain americas and even him right now has the solid snake thing going on

edited 31st Oct '15 12:52:24 PM by xbimpy

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#45804: Oct 31st 2015 at 12:52:38 PM

[up][up][up]By that logic nothing from "Carol in space" era should be touched. Or, for another character, nothing involving Rogue as a member o the X-Men. Just because a story is shit it doesn't mean everything that came out of it is bad.

I mean, I don't even know if the alcoholism plot was good. I haven't read it. But the main issue of that "rape" story was because it wasn't portrayed as a rape story, it was a romantic plot. Then people like Claremont decided to step up and treat the event with the seriousness it deserves, and they did good work with it.

[up][up]I am not sure if Captain Marvel is the best for that, even ignoring those plots. She was never particularly light hearted. Not terribly grim, most of the time, but not all that brightly either.

PS:Btw, remember that the most light hearted Iron Man movie was the one that involved Tony dealing with PSD. Even if the alcoholic plot is touched, it doesn't mean the tone of the movie will be grim.

edited 31st Oct '15 12:56:31 PM by Heatth

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#45805: Oct 31st 2015 at 12:55:51 PM

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7e8_1364222595

[up]Carol’s upbeat, charismatic, and extraordinary competitive drive is why Jessica looks up to her during Alias. She has the umf that Jessica lacked

edited 31st Oct '15 12:59:39 PM by xbimpy

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#45806: Oct 31st 2015 at 12:58:31 PM

I have nothing to contribute to this discussion. I'm just going to say a Carol-centered film shouldn't be difficult for Fiege to make at this point.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#45807: Oct 31st 2015 at 12:58:44 PM

She didn't become an alcoholic due to that storyline. She became an alcoholic waaaaaay later during Kurt Busiek's run and it was because she was losing her powers. It had nothing at all to do with Marcus.

In any case, none of that has happened in the MCU, so why would it matter?

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#45808: Oct 31st 2015 at 1:02:26 PM

Carol’s upbeat, charismatic, and extraordinary competitive drive is why Jessica looks up to her during Alias. She has the umf that Jessica lacked

I know, but she is no She-Hulk. That was never her thing. The tone of her stories were not particularly up beat, as far I understand, not any more than your average super hero plot. And she can be all of that while being a recovering alcoholic (she is all of that while being a recovering alcoholic, in comic).

edited 31st Oct '15 1:15:35 PM by Heatth

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#45809: Oct 31st 2015 at 1:03:21 PM

[up] [up]Thats when she was Warbird. during that time she drank because of no powers and a memories of a dark and troubled past

edited 31st Oct '15 1:07:29 PM by xbimpy

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#45810: Oct 31st 2015 at 1:04:40 PM

[up]I never read any Warbird story, what do you mean?

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#45811: Oct 31st 2015 at 1:09:46 PM

when she lost her cosmic powers she wore a new costume called warbird. it was during the mid 80s-90s. an angsty dark time.

the baggage was messy, which is why the newest ms marvel from 2014 was meant to change what it meant to be a hero.

but idk what this has to do with the MCU

edited 31st Oct '15 1:12:42 PM by xbimpy

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#45812: Oct 31st 2015 at 1:14:26 PM

After her her rape, she lost her powers to Rogue and then ripped the Avengers a new one. She did NOT become alcoholic. Instead when she found herself in space with new powers (as Binary) she joined the Starjammers.

She only became an alcoholic much later on when she was part of the Avengers again and calling herself Warbird. She was losing her powers, so she drank. It had nothing to do with the rape storyline.

Also, it was the early 2000s and Busiek's run wasn't dark at all, it was very awesome.

edited 31st Oct '15 1:17:33 PM by alliterator

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#45813: Oct 31st 2015 at 1:14:31 PM

[up][up]I thought you were replying to me, so I was confused.

edited 31st Oct '15 1:14:52 PM by Heatth

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#45814: Oct 31st 2015 at 1:15:22 PM

so this should be obvious but Marvel cant get shit down with Hulk solo anything.

http://screenrant.com/hulk-movie-mark-ruffalo-thor-ragnarok/

yellowturtle from Nowhere Important Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#45815: Oct 31st 2015 at 1:17:21 PM

I don't think it's necessary for Hulk to have a solo movie at the moment.

edited 31st Oct '15 4:53:08 PM by yellowturtle

Crow: There's a plot?
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#45816: Oct 31st 2015 at 1:19:52 PM

The only solo film fans want Hulk to even have is an adaptation of Planet Hulk, which really doesn't work in the context of the MCU.

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#45817: Oct 31st 2015 at 1:40:16 PM

[up][up]i think that would include hulk characters 2 like she hulk

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#45818: Oct 31st 2015 at 1:55:49 PM

I'd definitely like to get She-Hulk in here, but figuring out how to do so is difficult.

As for Carol, after reading her Captain Marvel stuff, I get the impression that she often does stuff just to prove she can. I think there's something in that.

Oh God! Natural light!
xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#45819: Oct 31st 2015 at 2:55:35 PM

[up] Carol's underlying theme is her tough, unrelenting attitude to prove she has worth, especially against men.

As Ms. Marvel, she is smarter, more serious, focused and observant.

Then the two fuse and from there on a bunch of convoluted personalities happen, which is why I'm not the biggest fan.

but overall she is very assertive in ways you haven't seen yet with females in the films. But tv already gave us agent May and Cater.

edited 31st Oct '15 2:58:00 PM by xbimpy

JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#45820: Oct 31st 2015 at 3:06:14 PM

I don't think a hero needs a fatal flaw so much as they need a compelling goal or believable problems (by "believable" I mean "doesn't insult the audience"). MCU's Captain America doesn't have any serious flaws, but he does have problems like how he's sixty-plus years out of his own time, and he has goals like "keep as many people alive as possible while fighting the Hydra war machine."

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#45821: Oct 31st 2015 at 3:33:00 PM

[up] yep you don't need to let characters drink a cup of misery so they can be flawed. There's plenty of other reasons

edited 31st Oct '15 3:33:51 PM by xbimpy

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#45822: Oct 31st 2015 at 3:33:49 PM

I happen to agree that we need more heroes (and heroines) who are, well, heroes and heroines. I don't mind the troubled personalities, but I want both sides of the spectrum.

I wouldn't mind Carol having a little bit of a chip on her shoulder, though they have to be careful not to overdo it. But for a woman who is/was in the military, it makes sense that she might be keen to assert herself. For example I can totally see Tony making one of his typical inappropriate remarks and her tearing him a new one for it instead of going for the usual "oh, well, that's Tony" reaction.

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#45823: Oct 31st 2015 at 4:23:29 PM

Yeeeah, hate to break it to you, but I don't think the phrase "I can totally see..." has ever preceded anything other than what I like to call "Fandom Wishful Thinking."

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#45824: Oct 31st 2015 at 4:33:20 PM

[up]Well...I think I once wrote "I can totally see Disney and Sony coming to an agreement over Spider-man".

JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#45825: Oct 31st 2015 at 5:45:27 PM

Well... I can totally see what one of Captain Marvel's big problems could be[lol]: The search for a replacement Captain America.

Even if Steve doesn't go full Nomad on us, he's already destroyed one branch of the military/intelligence group and leaked a shit-ton of classified information. He's no longer working for the government, and has formed a private army, among which are a renegade spymaster (Fury) and a former terrorist (Scarlet Witch). Steve may be a public entity, he may work with the US government, but I doubt they're going to want him around anymore than necessary. They need a replacement hero.

I think Carol would be the obvious choice: she's a trusted military officer, she's got a photogenic power set (as opposed to an alien symbiote or metal claws or whatever), and she's public (in the comics, anyway).


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