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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#45376: Oct 24th 2015 at 1:44:03 PM

At which point a producer steps in and says "Um, no, you can't kill off that character. Because sequels."

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#45378: Oct 24th 2015 at 1:50:04 PM

Except that's no different from any franchise movie.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#45379: Oct 24th 2015 at 1:51:14 PM

For some of the MCU movies, the Directors actually got writing credit. Whedon writes his own scripts, James Gunn at the very least rewrote Got G and added details like the Walkman, and Ant-man was for a large part the work of Wright before he got replaced.

The Russo Brothers have a writing team, though, the same one which is responsible for the whole Captain America franchise. And which, imho, deserves at least as much credit for what is currently the best franchise within the MCU as the directors.

In principal I agree though. Writing for the MCU is close to writing for a TV show because you have always to consider what happens beforehand and what is supposed to happen next. That's not a bad thing in my book, though. It is a refreshing change. It's more or less what the BBC did with Sherlock, just the other way around. Sherlock is a TV show with movie like episodes, the MCU is a franchise with serialized movies.

edited 24th Oct '15 1:53:28 PM by Swanpride

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#45380: Oct 24th 2015 at 2:10:08 PM

The thing about TV shows is that the writers have more authority because the directors don't get the time they do with movies to start making changes. Like, no matter how long the script takes, the director gets a week, two tops, to spend with the episode.

edited 24th Oct '15 2:10:40 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#45381: Oct 24th 2015 at 2:22:11 PM

In tv shows the main authority lies with the showrunner, who's effectively a scriptwriter on steroids.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#45382: Oct 24th 2015 at 6:20:16 PM

What they could do, assuming the Avengers know about his powers, is have Tony send a remotely controlled suit after Purple Man. It's a machine. His pheromones won't do squat. Basically, Tony can fight him without even needing to be there.

That beats my plan, which was to have Tony just mute all incoming sound.

One way or another, Iron Man could make short, effortless work of Kilgrave without any of the other Avengers ever being involved. The reason Kilgrave isn't being tackled by the Avengers isn't any fear of what he would do to them. It's because he's so low on the totem pole as to be beneath their notice.

It's a point Luke Cage likes to make in the comics: the Avengers are busy fighting aliens and time-traveling warlords and global super-terrorism. They don't have the time or the manpower to be punching out every rapist and mugger in every city in the world, and so if there weren't street-level characters like Cage or Jones, super-rapists and super-muggers would go completely unattended to.

The issue then becomes of collateral damage. If Kilgrave is in a open space with a lot of people? Well, he can just command everyone around him to attack the robot and it will become overwhelmed. Or he can say, "Leave me alone or I will tell everyone here to stop breathing."

He's a sociopath who can control people. He will have no qualms about killing large crowds.

He would have to catch Tony monologuing to do that. The thing about Kilgrave is that he has no physical powers. His hypnotic voice is it. If Tony flew in and blasted him in the chest before he had a chance to speak, game over, he's down.

As I pointed out above, the reason that's not going to happen is because he is so far down the power scale that it would be a waste of the Avengers' time to get involved in this. They're busy.

I still find it amusing just how many Spider-people are running around nowadays. Soon they'll become their own race with their own society if this keeps up. "Homo-Arachnis".

That almost happened. Check out "Spider-Island". It's about an evil plot spreading spider-powers throughout the entire Manhattan island.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#45383: Oct 24th 2015 at 8:59:11 PM

The main reason nobody isn't doing anything about him is because they don't actually know he exists. If the trailer is any indication, people at large don't know about him, and the ones that do think he's "gone" or something. Jessica's the only one who doesn't seem to believe he's gone for good.

It's true that the Avengers don't go after smaller-scale individual superhumans in this continuity (that's more SHIELD's area, especially nowadays), but even if they did they still wouldn't be doing so for Kilgrave.

Also, on the off chance they did have a fight Tony would presumably have no idea that he would need to mute Kilgrave's voice, or that he would need to immediately fly in and incapacitate him instantly before he even had a chance to speak. However, if Kilgrave and Stark were going to have a conflict it's likely it'd be Kilgrave initiating is - the nature of Kilgrave powers means he's most effective when he's proactive, not reactive. Trying to ambush Tony outside the suit, for example.

edited 24th Oct '15 9:03:10 PM by KnownUnknown

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#45384: Oct 24th 2015 at 10:41:50 PM

He would have to catch Tony monologuing to do that.

Tony loves to monologue, so that would be pretty easy.

he thing about Kilgrave is that he has no physical powers. His hypnotic voice is it. If Tony flew in and blasted him in the chest before he had a chance to speak, game over, he's down.

That's if Tony knew about his powers at all. Hell, Tony was mind-controlled by the Scarlet Witch!

stingerbrg Since: Jun, 2009
#45385: Oct 24th 2015 at 10:51:45 PM

The armor lets him work underwater and fly into space. Couldn't it just filter out the pheromones?

Izeinsummer Since: Jun, 2013
#45386: Oct 24th 2015 at 11:04:41 PM

Kilgrave is alive because he hasn't made himself that sort of target. Nothing in his power set shields him in any way from someone with a well made hunting rifle 300 meters up wind, let alone Tony Stark. In a way, he makes more sense than most supervillains do. His goals are petty and his cruelties and crimes all immediate and personal, but.. why would he operate on a larger scale? Running a city, or a nation gets you prestige, and the ability shape society according to your ideals and values. Kilgrave hasn't got ideals and values, so no motivation on that side of the equation, and his power set makes everyone he actually interacts with kow-tow to him regardless of whether they have ever heard of him before, so he doesn't need prestige either. So he coasts through the world leaving a trail of damage and heartbreak, but doesn't actually change it on the larger scale.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#45387: Oct 25th 2015 at 7:04:01 AM

Tony winning would be easy, have a suit assemble around Kilgrave and fly him off somewhere. However winning isn't the problem, knowing about the existence of, knowing about the powers of and having the time to fight, are the problems.

On the MCU timeline thing, couldn't MCU elections just happen during odd numbered years instead of even numbered ones? Or Ward was being poetic with the "just in time for the midterms" thing?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#45388: Oct 25th 2015 at 7:19:54 AM

For the most part we haven't see the MCU Avengers tackle low level crime, so unless Kilgrave committed some sort of mass atrocity that got him on their radar, I don't think Iron Man would even consider him a priority.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#45389: Oct 25th 2015 at 7:21:39 AM

Kilgrave could be on their radar since it's very easy for someone like him to commit terrorism. He doesn't seem to have done that though so they don't have any reason to be looking for him.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#45390: Oct 25th 2015 at 7:32:40 AM

On the MCU timeline thing, couldn't MCU elections just happen during odd numbered years instead of even numbered ones? Or Ward was being poetic with the "just in time for the midterms" thing?

Once again: Midterm elections happened on November 4, 2014. The episode took place, then, before that date (it aired in October). There is nothing else that contradicts this.

The timeline matches.

edited 25th Oct '15 7:33:01 AM by alliterator

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#45391: Oct 25th 2015 at 7:55:36 AM

Unless new york is on the verge of total destruction the avenggers wont occupy their time with state matters. There's hydra aliens evil magicians magical beings and killer robots out there they keep their sights on, not these smaller crimes even if said crime has a meta involded. This is why the defenders rise because the larger than life hero's aren't. Everyone is in their own sphere but if say galactus showed up then corporation from everyone is needed

edited 25th Oct '15 7:59:09 AM by xbimpy

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#45392: Oct 25th 2015 at 8:29:02 AM

IT would take to long to mention all the instances which made me set the second season completely in 2014 and the first completely in 2013, and I haven't updated the timeline yet so that you can see for yourself. I can just say as someone who delved into the shows and the movie that at least until now, Agent of Shield is written in a way that the plot starts at one point at the beginning of the year and ends at some point in fall, while the movies are often (but not always) advertised as "happens just now", but are in general avoiding specific dates by now.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#45394: Oct 25th 2015 at 9:44:34 AM

I can just say as someone who delved into the shows and the movie that at least until now, Agent of Shield is written in a way that the plot starts at one point at the beginning of the year and ends at some point in fall, while the movies are often (but not always) advertised as "happens just now", but are in general avoiding specific dates by now.

Nope, the show starts in the fall and ends in the spring. And each episode is presented as if it takes place on the same date it airs (aside from episodes that lead into the next). I still don't understand how you could get "Season 2 takes place entirely in 2014" when, uh, no it doesn't.

For instance: "What You Become" takes place on December 9. The following episode takes place a few days later, but the episode after that can take whatever time skip it needs. Days, weeks. We don't know how long there is between episodes.

Season 1 obviously begins in December, since it takes place after Iron Man 3, but then it continues on until April, when it intersects with Captain America: The Winter Soldier, and then ends in April/May 2014. Season 2 begins about four to five months later and goes on from there until it intersects Age of Ultron in April/May 2015.

edited 25th Oct '15 10:02:04 AM by alliterator

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#45395: Oct 25th 2015 at 9:51:41 AM

Mark makes it official regarding his appearance in Thor: Ragnarok.

Interesting note, the writers of Thor: Ragnarok also wrote the animated film "Hulk vs. Thor".

Hmmmmmm.

Also, something I've been meaning to ask. I read somewhere about Tom Holland getting hurt on the set of Civil War. What's that all about? surprised

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#45397: Oct 25th 2015 at 10:49:41 AM

[up][up][up]That doesn't make any sense, considering that between Iron Man 3 and The Winter Soldier, there is the Dark World.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#45398: Oct 25th 2015 at 10:55:14 AM

The Dark World takes place after Iron Man 3. (It always did.)

Look, it goes:

  • Iron Man 3 (takes place during December 2013)
  • Agents of SHIELD Season 1, Episodes 1-7
  • Thor: The Dark World
  • Agents of SHIELD Season 1, Episodes 8-16
  • Captain America: The Winter Soldier
  • Agents of SHIELD Season 1, Episodes 17-22

Some months (about four to five) later, then:

  • Agents of SHIELD Season 2, Episodes 1-19
  • Avengers: Age of Ultron
  • Agents of SHIELD Season 3, Episodes 20-22

So I would say that The Dark World takes place sometime in early 2014, probably January or February (there is nothing that contradicts this). That still leaves enough time for it to turn into April for The Winter Soldier and then the season ends in May.

See? Timeline matches.

edited 25th Oct '15 10:58:07 AM by alliterator

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#45399: Oct 25th 2015 at 11:13:30 AM

Wait, how do we know that Agents of SHIELD begins post-IM3?

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#45400: Oct 25th 2015 at 11:14:08 AM

[up] Because the pilot of Agents of Shield has Extremis in it as one of the compounds of the Centipede formula.

edited 25th Oct '15 11:14:35 AM by higherbrainpattern


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