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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#45351: Oct 24th 2015 at 2:13:52 AM

I imagine any police officer or ACTU / SHIELD agent who goes to investigate rumors of a strange man who exhibits an odd and terrible control over others return having lost track of time, only capable of saying that the stories were just groundless pranks.

If they're lucky.

edited 24th Oct '15 2:15:56 AM by KnownUnknown

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#45353: Oct 24th 2015 at 7:48:13 AM

I'm not sure if it will make it into the show but in the comics Killgrave was later retconned into possessing a healing factor in order to explain how he somehow came back after getting punched to death by Namor.

AnotherGuy Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#45354: Oct 24th 2015 at 11:16:41 AM

Edgar Wright. Jon Favreau. Joss Whedon. Editorial mandates. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#45355: Oct 24th 2015 at 11:26:37 AM

Mind explaining what we're supposed to be afraid of?

AnotherGuy Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#45356: Oct 24th 2015 at 11:30:50 AM

Ever watch the Star Wars prequels? Notice what happened to The Ultimate Universe? How about New 52?

edited 24th Oct '15 11:31:38 AM by AnotherGuy

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#45357: Oct 24th 2015 at 11:50:10 AM

None of which have anything to do with the MCU or the people you just mentioned.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#45358: Oct 24th 2015 at 12:11:37 PM

The Ultimate universe was troubled from the very beginning because there ironically wasn't enough editorial control.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#45360: Oct 24th 2015 at 12:45:08 PM

I'd like to upgrade that 'troubled' to a 'diseased'

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#45361: Oct 24th 2015 at 12:47:41 PM

Pretty much the only reason Time Runs Out was even a thing was so that they could scrap the Ultimate Universe, but save Ultimate Spider-Man, which was pretty much the only thing in it anyone liked anymore (and in many cases, to begin with).

Anicomicgeek Burning MireGoji from Japan (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Burning MireGoji
#45362: Oct 24th 2015 at 12:51:58 PM

Pretty much the only reason Time Runs Out was even a thing was so that they could scrap the Ultimate Universe, but save Ultimate Spider-Man, which was pretty much the only thing in it anyone liked anymore (and in many cases, to begin with).

Well, that's what happens when someone decides to make most of the heroes complete sociopaths and/jackasses, with in some cases, their worse flaws blown up.

edited 24th Oct '15 12:52:58 PM by Anicomicgeek

Troper Wall * DeviantArt
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#45363: Oct 24th 2015 at 12:55:03 PM

I still find it amusing just how many Spider-people are running around nowadays. Soon they'll become their own race with their own society if this keeps up. "Homo-Arachnis". cool

edited 24th Oct '15 12:56:11 PM by nervmeister

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#45364: Oct 24th 2015 at 12:57:00 PM

[up][up] ...Yes. That's the point I was making.

As far as I can tell, with hindsight in effect, the entire run of Ultimate Spider-Man, and The Ultimates 1 are the only things actually worth reading from the Ultimate Universe.

edited 24th Oct '15 12:57:26 PM by BadWolf21

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#45365: Oct 24th 2015 at 1:01:14 PM

I'm not really sure what the original post was in reference to. It kind of came out of nowhere.

And the Star Wars prequels is a weird comparison since a major reason the quality was so low is because Lucas had Protection from Editors, which seems at odds with the accusation that the MCU is about to suck because of editorial oversight.

edited 24th Oct '15 1:01:49 PM by comicwriter

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#45366: Oct 24th 2015 at 1:11:52 PM

I mean. Lucas was the boss for the OT. I guess you can argue that the PT were a bit like in comic books when the plot gets done by editorial rather than the actual writers.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#45367: Oct 24th 2015 at 1:12:52 PM

More specifically, it's because he's not that good at writing dialogue (stories, yes; dialogue, no), isn't much of an actor's director, and had inexperienced actors in lead roles who needed more help than he could give. Notice how Liam Neeson, Sam Jackson, and Ewan McGregor in Episodes II and III manage to still give pretty solid performances. It's Jake Lloyd, Hayden Christensen, and Natalie Portman that struggled, and they're the ones who are front and centre.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#45368: Oct 24th 2015 at 1:13:54 PM

I'm guessing the guy was trying to say something bad is gonna happen with the MCU or something. Typical doomsayers running around with signs saying the end is nigh.

[up] Blame the direction for that. I saw a video from Doug Walker that talks about what the prequels got right, and he points out that Christensen is actually a good actor in other movies, it's just that Lucas's poor direction made him act stilted and awkward. He even uses an example of Mark Wahlberg in The Happening: his acting sucks in that movie, but he's had much better performances in other films. The problem lies in how the actor is being directed to do their scenes.

edited 24th Oct '15 1:16:45 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#45369: Oct 24th 2015 at 1:18:13 PM

I have never seen Hayden Christenssen act favorably in a single movie.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#45370: Oct 24th 2015 at 1:23:10 PM

I tried to find the one movie he was well-received in (he wore glasses in it, that's all I remember) but instead found the most bizarre filmography. What are these??

David sails through the sun and encounters a "surfer dude" Solar Proton, Jammer (voiced by Hayden Christensen), who surfs the solar winds.

*drools*

edited 24th Oct '15 1:24:44 PM by Tuckerscreator

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#45371: Oct 24th 2015 at 1:25:33 PM

That's what I'm already saying. Natalie Portman is a fantastic actor, but she's terrible in the Star Wars movies. Why? Because she's a young actor whose director is a big-picture kind of guy. She's not getting the kind of direction she needs, and is working with a bad script, and is therefore not putting in a good performance. Same with Christensen (although his talents are significantly lesser).

The central problem of the Star Wars prequels is that George Lucas needed a dramaturge.

Contrast to the MCU (woot, bringing it back around the the topic!) where that isn't an issue. There are tons of people looking over stuff all the time. The risk is that the movies can easily become generic through that process, but they've so far done a good job at hiring directors who can work with a strong vision within the restrictions of a shared universe.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#45372: Oct 24th 2015 at 1:29:43 PM

I actually don't think that Natalie Portman is that good. She is dedicated to her craft and I wouldn't call her bad, I every time I see her in a role I can't help but thinking that "well, she did good, but another actress might have knocked this one out of the park".

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#45373: Oct 24th 2015 at 1:34:03 PM

In the case of Cinematic Universes, Marvel or otherwise, when you are talking about director/studio relations it's almost better to treat it as a TV show that puts out a small number of horrifically high-budget episodes then a collection of films. A TV show episode's director is hired to execute an already-existing script and has limited influence over the story. And that's a good thing, if the dozen+ directors on a given TV show's payroll all had independent creative control over the story of their particular episode, you'd be left with a disjointed contradictory mess of a story that would result in the show being canceled in short order.

Same deal with a cinematic universe. You need a showrunner (or showrunners) at the top to steer the ship so everything works as part of a greater whole, in the case of the MCU that person is Kevin Feige.

While this is certainly an extreme example, if there was no oversight the Russo Brothers could kill off Scott Lang in Civil War, and then Payton Reed could just have him still be alive in Ant-Man and The Wasp because screw continuity I'm making the movie I want.

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#45374: Oct 24th 2015 at 1:35:01 PM

You're confusing directors with writers.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#45375: Oct 24th 2015 at 1:39:11 PM

Directors "creatively outrank" writers (meaning they're free to change whatever the writer writes. Scriptwriting is a very thankless profession) when it comes to Hollywood, so he's not wrong.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

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