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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#45176: Oct 22nd 2015 at 8:53:51 AM

Oh, great, someone brought back the Mandarin topic while I was away.

.....It wasn't me this time.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#45177: Oct 22nd 2015 at 8:55:17 AM

[up][up][up] If he's Shang-Chi's father then the Yellow Peril concerns might be mitigated by being opposed by an Asian hero. ...or worsened by being opposed by a Chinese kung fu master.

And it would be a good solution to the problem I posed above, that if he opposes any other hero than he's taking a slot away from one of that hero's rogues. As Shang-Chi's father, he's not taking a slot away from anyone because Fu Manchu can't appear in the MCU anyway.

edited 22nd Oct '15 8:55:47 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#45178: Oct 22nd 2015 at 8:55:48 AM

RDJ might continue to show up in the MCU as a cameo if Infinity War doesn't kill him off, but if they ever have Iron Man 4 it would probably star Don Cheadle.

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#45179: Oct 22nd 2015 at 8:57:32 AM

@Theokal, Look, if they're smart they'll be basing it on the Ultimate Spider-man comics and not the God-awful cartoon that's Ultimate Spider-man in name only.

I mean for gods sakes, even the Ultimate Spider-man video game was great, but that cartoon? *retches*

Also, I find all these Mandarin discussions ridiculous. We got an excellent version in Iron Man 3, why keep obsessively retreading old ground. We all knew that by the very nature of adaptation nothing was ever going to be a one to one translation 24/7.

edited 22nd Oct '15 8:58:59 AM by MousaThe14

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BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#45180: Oct 22nd 2015 at 8:57:55 AM

Of course there will be an Iron Man 4. It's really just a matter of "when" and "whether it stars Robert or not."

We know the MCU isn't afraid of recasting when they need to, and while Tony is obviously higher profile than Rhodey or Banner, if it comes down to getting someone new, or never ever again using the hero these movies turned into an household name, they'll get someone new.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#45181: Oct 22nd 2015 at 8:58:26 AM

I think they should just retire certain characters. Infinity War can be the big send off for for the phase 1 heroes.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#45182: Oct 22nd 2015 at 9:01:07 AM

Also, I find all these Mandarin discussions ridiculous. We got an excellent version in Iron Man 3, why keep obsessively retreading old ground.

Because a lot of people don't agree that the Mandarin we got was "excellent."

I mean, I loved Trevor Slattery. He was hilarious. Killian himself? Eh, kind of boring. Yes, even with the flame breath. He was just another evil industrialist. I mean, Whiplash was more interesting than him.

I think I would have preferred it if Madame Masque was the villain for Iron Man 3. Like, switch the roles of Killian and Maya Hansen - and then have Hansen reveal that she was behind everything and kill Killian. That would be a twist.

edited 22nd Oct '15 9:01:31 AM by alliterator

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#45183: Oct 22nd 2015 at 9:03:21 AM

While I'm sure some characters will become much less-frequently appearing after Infinity War (particularly, I feel like we'll probably be seeing much less of Steve and Thor), Tony Stark is their cash cow. I'm not joking when I say that the 2008 movie made Iron Man into an A-list hero. He's the one character that I don't think Marvel could ever bring themselves to stop using.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#45184: Oct 22nd 2015 at 9:04:22 AM

@Mousa The 14: My point exactly; I hate that cartoon too (no offense intended to anyone here who likes it). The problem is, despite being controversial, it DOES have success, otherwise they wouldn't have renewed it for 4 seasons. Hence my worry. But.... yeah, I am probably being just paranoid.

On the other hand, I disagree with you on the Mandarin. I think the Iron Man 3 version was terrible. Buuuuuut I have let everyone know my opinion sooner in this thread and I don't feel like repeating myself, let alone bother people with it again. So I'll say no more on the topic.

@Bad Wolf 21: Fair enough. The only question would be if it'd be good or not.

For those of you who speak french or have a good translator, I found the article I was talking about above: http://www.allocine.fr/article/fichearticle_gen_carticle=18637207.html

According to it, RDJ stated the change in October 7th. Again, i cannot say for sure if the article is reliable; for all I know, he was actually referring to Civil War. Whatever, we'll see.

I think I would have preferred it if Madame Masque was the villain for Iron Man 3. Like, switch the roles of Killian and Maya Hansen - and then have Hansen reveal that she was behind everything and kill Killian. That would be a twist.

That would have been awesome.

edited 22nd Oct '15 9:05:22 AM by Theokal3

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#45185: Oct 22nd 2015 at 9:06:56 AM

It always depends on the superpower. Daisy, Lincoln, Alicia, they all have powers which are not particularly expensive to show. Deathlock is a little bit more problematic because all those prosthetics put a strain on the budget, which is exactly why he only turns up from time to time. Bobbi doesn't even have any superpowers. And Sif is simply super strong.

But other powers like, well, swinging around like Spiderman does or a Flame body or anything related to water are CGI heavy and too expensive to use for a regular character.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#45186: Oct 22nd 2015 at 9:09:03 AM

[up][up][up][up]

Yeah, it would definitely make her feel a lot less wasted, not to mention it's a nice nod to the original Extremis comics where she was behind all the attacks.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#45187: Oct 22nd 2015 at 9:09:43 AM

Regardless of whether Killian was a good Mandarin or not, I don't think he was ultimately a particularly good villain. They dropped the ball a lot with him.

Anyway, I could buy Mandarin being active earlier and then going into remission for a while - only coming out briefly to deal with someone making a mockery of his name. Or if the title is inherited (like in Iron Man Armored Adventures), having an earlier holder of the name face an earlier hero and fail, leading to the current one holding the position.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#45188: Oct 22nd 2015 at 9:11:36 AM

Maybe. But they're still pricks if they threw that at those now hopeful fans with no intention of following up on it, and yet aren't coming clean about it.

What exactly aren't they coming clean about? It's not like there have been people begging and demanding the Mandarin and Marvel has been intentionally vague about it. It has not come up at all since there haven't been anymore Iron Man movies since then.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#45189: Oct 22nd 2015 at 9:13:45 AM

It always depends on the superpower. Daisy, Lincoln, Alicia, they all have powers which are not particularly expensive to show. Deathlock is a little bit more problematic because all those prosthetics put a strain on the budget, which is exactly why he only turns up from time to time. Bobbi doesn't even have any superpowers. And Sif is simply super strong.

But other powers like, well, swinging around like Spiderman does or a Flame body or anything related to water are CGI heavy and too expensive to use for a regular character.

And on that note, the following are the Mandarin's Rings:

  • Ice Blast - Exactly what it sounds like, this ring freezes things.
  • Mento-Intensifier - Mind control, easy to do on any budget.
  • Electro-Blast - Lightning powers like Lincoln's.
  • Flame Blast - Blasts flame. What do you want, a thesaurus?
  • White Light - Gravity manipulation.
  • Black Light - Living darkness that absorbs light and does stuff.
  • Disintegration Beam - Unmakes the target on a molecular level.
  • Vortex Beam - Levitates objects and creates propulsion in any direction.
  • Impact Beam - Concussive force.
  • Matter Rearranger - Transmutes things into other things, phase-shifting from liquids to solids for example or changing the atomic properties of the air into poison gas.

Any of these could be reasonable on a TV budget but for a character who has all of them? Allowing him to really flex his powerset and use all of his rings would be pretty taxing.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#45190: Oct 22nd 2015 at 9:17:23 AM

too expensive to use for a regular character.

Which a recurring villain is, by definition, not.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#45191: Oct 22nd 2015 at 9:19:31 AM

"It's not like there have been people begging and demanding the Mandarin and Marvel has been intentionally vague about it."

Well there must've been a demand for him if that One-shot was made.

edited 22nd Oct '15 9:21:02 AM by nervmeister

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#45192: Oct 22nd 2015 at 9:20:27 AM

Regardless of whether Killian was a good Mandarin or not, I don't think he was ultimately a particularly good villain. They dropped the ball a lot with him.

Agreed. Even excluding my rage against the Mandarin twist, Killian really wasn't memorable in himself.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#45193: Oct 22nd 2015 at 9:21:50 AM

Probably not. They made the One Shot before the movie even came out, I believe.

Edit: Ah, no, it was filmed October 2013, while the movie came out in April. So there were a few months. But I doubt fan reaction had anything to do with it. In fact, per Wikipedia: "Pearce and producer Stephen Broussard had the idea for the short during the production of Iron Man 3, to provide "a fresh take" on the Mandarin character."

edited 22nd Oct '15 9:23:26 AM by alliterator

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#45194: Oct 22nd 2015 at 9:26:04 AM

I always thought that was interesting - Hail to the King does feel like an attempt at an Author's Saving Throw, even if it isn't. They spend the whole time talking about how ridiculous Trevor is, and then go "don't worry, the real Mandarin still exists in this continuity" and go on to have Mandarin get rid of the fake one in the last minute without any elaboration or real hope of being followed up on.

They might've predicted a fan response and made the short preemptively. The short doesn't make a whole lot of sense on its own without it being a response to something.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#45195: Oct 22nd 2015 at 9:30:11 AM

I think one reason they made the short is because they wanted to use Ben Kingsley again and this made the most sense.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#45196: Oct 22nd 2015 at 9:31:03 AM

The Word of God from the guy who actually wrote it was that more than anything it was about fixing some plot holes since they felt the "The Mandarin was a hoax" plot kind of threw some things out of whack since we saw the Ten Rings were a very real terrorist organization in the first two movies.

But the thing about "Fan response" is that those people were in the minority. The movie is currently the highest grossing solo film in the MCU and has a 79 percent at Rotten Tomatoes. By all measurable criteria, it was a success. The people screaming about the Mandarin were either a small enough minority that they didn't affect the box office take or the Mandarin twist wasn't enough to get them to not see the movie.

edited 22nd Oct '15 9:36:13 AM by comicwriter

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#45197: Oct 22nd 2015 at 9:32:49 AM

[up][up]Well regardless of what you or I think, a Word of God as to whether this will have any bearing on future MCU films would be nice.

edited 22nd Oct '15 9:33:22 AM by nervmeister

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#45198: Oct 22nd 2015 at 9:34:09 AM

I don't think God cares enough about the shorts to give a Word.

Like, they haven't made an official statement that Object 47 is never going to be seen again either. I'm still not holding my breath for it.

edited 22nd Oct '15 9:34:18 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#45199: Oct 22nd 2015 at 9:35:27 AM

There are even a lot of people (me included) who applaud Marvel for their decision risk such an unusual take...and for their ability to keep it secret.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love

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