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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#44451: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:10:12 PM

The function it serves is really one of ratings.

It's the fifth episode of an eight-episode limited series. It's an action-heavy setpiece, and features a big-name guest star.

It's an episode that exists pretty much so the network can promote the hell out of the show going into sweeps month. The story beats it covers could be done in other ways, but "business as usual" doesn't draw in viewers.

Cynical? Undoubtedly. But that's how network television works.

Melon: I actually did the math once. Almost every one of the Howling Commandos from the movie were working on other projects at the time.

edited 11th Oct '15 1:11:12 PM by BadWolf21

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44453: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:13:28 PM

[up][up]That's a good reason in my opinion.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#44454: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:17:45 PM

At least the managed to add a nod to the comics into the episode.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#44455: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:23:26 PM

Mukora, I know you haven't seen all of Daredevil yet, but c'mon. Matt is hardly boring.

Also, I think you're being extremely unfair to both Daredevil and Jessica Jones. Just because both shows are dark doesn't mean people can't enjoy 'em.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44456: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:26:43 PM

Eh, people have a right to their tastes. We all know by now what Mukora's are when it comes to her comicbook media.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#44457: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:27:37 PM

I'm not saying people can't enjoy them! Obviously they do. But I don't. And I really want to- at least, I want to enjoy Jessica Jones. It's only the second Marvel thing to come out with a female lead and I want to celebrate it as much as possible. But if the "grittiness" of it all just bores or irritates me, I can't.

I get that this is a "me" problem.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#44458: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:34:12 PM

I mean, Jessica Jones was always going to be super dark. Her original comic series is easily the darkest/grittiest property Marvel has adapted to the MCU so far.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44459: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:35:12 PM

I expected the entire Netflix line to be darker in subject matter and tone compared to the films.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#44460: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:38:12 PM

I wasn't familiar with Jessica Jones until recently, so there's that.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#44461: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:41:48 PM

How dare you be you, you love the gritty dark GRIMDARKNESS of the 3rd Millennium or else, missy.

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#44462: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:41:50 PM

Fair enough. But for future reference, research takes like, a minute. The first thing I did when they announced the Netflix shows was look up Jessica Jones.

Fun fact: Alias was the first title released under MAX, Marvel's R-rated imprint.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#44463: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:44:14 PM

I mean, whether or not I expected it to be dark doesn't really change anything. So I don't understand what the point you're making is.

Plus, like, I never look up the comics beforehand if I can avoid it. Cause they're essentially irrelevant, and knowing/expecting certain things might happen isn't fun for me.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#44464: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:52:11 PM

That you seem surprised at it being dark despite this being pretty much the only thing on the slate where you should be surprised if it wasn't.

I'm also not suggesting you find out absolutely everything there is to know about the character ahead of time. Just that if you're not familiar with them, finding out who they are might not be a bad idea.

edited 11th Oct '15 1:53:55 PM by BadWolf21

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#44465: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:52:45 PM

I'm not surprised. Just disappointed.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#44466: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:57:14 PM

There's Darker and Edgier that's so terribly unnecessary and excessive that it falls into grimdark, which is awful, and then there's Darker and Edgier that's done well.

Daredevil is a example of it done well, IMO, and it looks like Jessica Jones is aiming for that as well.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#44467: Oct 11th 2015 at 2:06:01 PM

I am again in the camp that doesn't understand why Daredevil is considered dark and gritty. Dark and gritty shows generally don't let folks like Foggy exist for very long. Dark and gritty shows don't let guys like Matt uphold his ideals without having to sacrifice some of them. Hell, dark and gritty shows would never acknowledge that the world deserves a guy like Matt to begin with, unless Matt was in some way a fundamentally awful person.

Darkness and grittiness are about more than just a color pallet and an acknowledgement that the world sucks sometimes. It's about nuking hope from orbit because it's the only way to be sure. Daredevil is, in a lot of ways, too fundamentally optimistic to do that.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#44468: Oct 11th 2015 at 2:06:50 PM

I am usually of the opinion that there are few stories which really need an r-rating. I also think that there are better methods to depict violence on screen than showing the blood splatter, especially since the most heart-breaking and gripping murder I know is the one of Elsie in Fritz Lang's "M" and that movies shows nothing of the actual act.

But I really enjoy seeing Marvel branching out. I might always like the more family friendly offer at ABC a little bit better, because it is more for my personal taste of entertainment, but I also enjoy Daredevil's distinctive style.

I am actually afraid of Jessica Jones. The show is supposed to delve into film noir, which basically means that there will be a horrible, horrible end. At least Jessica will have to survive for the Defender show.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#44469: Oct 11th 2015 at 2:08:28 PM

Maybe the optimism just didn't hit me the right way. I dunno. Maybe I was too irritated by how boring I found Matt, and the grittiness is just an excuse.

I can't tell you why I didn't like Daredevil if it isn't the grittiness, so I'm sticking with that.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#44470: Oct 11th 2015 at 2:10:50 PM

I think it would be fairly easy to come to that conclusion if you only watched the first half of the series. It starts to get a bit better towards the end. This is no Game of Thrones.

edited 11th Oct '15 2:11:26 PM by Kostya

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#44471: Oct 11th 2015 at 2:11:24 PM

[up][up]I mean, y'know, it's okay not to like a show because it has a deep color pallet and acknowledges the world sucks sometimes. I just don't think that's the same as being dark, is all.

edited 11th Oct '15 2:11:32 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#44472: Oct 11th 2015 at 2:12:32 PM

I mean, the main character tortures people. If that's not dark I don't know what is

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#44473: Oct 11th 2015 at 2:12:36 PM

I dunno. I still think you're being too harsh on Daredevil, but okay.

....when does Matt torture people? I haven't seen the show in a few months.

edited 11th Oct '15 2:14:02 PM by higherbrainpattern

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#44474: Oct 11th 2015 at 2:15:24 PM

[up][up]Yeeeeeaaah, the torture thing is...

I mean, I don't think the writers have thought especially hard about it. Which is bad, but also understandable? I dunno. The show doesn't seem to think it's doing great things for Matt's psyche, so I suppose that's something.

[up]Dude regularly ties people up and beats on them until they tell him things that make their heart beat a certain way because Matt can tell when people are lying infallibly based on that.

It's dumb.

edited 11th Oct '15 2:16:02 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#44475: Oct 11th 2015 at 2:16:40 PM

I don't think the show ever portrays it as a good thing. I'll admit I forgot about that aspect of things though. It is rather dark.


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