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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#44427: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:29:21 PM

If anyone's going to turn into a villain, I'd honestly rather it be Hope. Since a) she's already a villain in her universe of origin, b) that scene of her commanding the ants had what seemed like some ominous foreshadowing, c) we'd finally have a female supervillain, and d) if they rescue Janet, we still have a Wasp.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#44428: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:32:00 PM

@wehrmacht: I understand why they're dark. But I also want to enjoy them, so

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#44429: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:32:19 PM

I mostly go to see these films to watch superpowered individuals slug each other in the face, so a movie without any antagonist wouldn't be that exciting for me.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#44430: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:33:07 PM

Anyone suggesting that any of the Ant-Man power trio are going to go evil are forgetting the kind of movie Ant-Man actually was.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#44431: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:34:44 PM

I feel like Hope would have to go through some pretty bad Character Derailment to become evil.

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#44432: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:36:16 PM

Pretty sure Janet was in her 40's or 50's when she went into the microverse, so she's probably not younger than her daughter.

And the good Ant heroes we know going evil sounds like a bad idea.

edited 11th Oct '15 12:37:12 PM by Ekuran

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#44433: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:39:21 PM

It's kind of like suggesting that the villain of Guardians Vol. 2 is going to be Drax. It doesn't make sense for the character, and flies in the face of the kind of tone that particular sub-franchise goes for.

That kind of high drama is more suited to Thor or Captain America (both of which actually kind of did it already, in their first and second movies respectively) than it is Ant-Man.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#44434: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:39:57 PM

I can't see it happening. It'd be rather interesting as a Bait-and-Switch but as I said from the start pretty much the only reason I imagine they got Evangeline Lilly to sign on in the first place was the promise that she'd get to become a proper superhero in a later installment.

She's a very big advocate for better gender representation in blockbusters.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#44435: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:40:36 PM

Can we possible get Catherine Zeta-Jones to play Janet?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#44436: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:43:52 PM

I saw a theory about how Janet could become the Red Queen as a result of her time in the Microverse. She could either be restored to normal at the end or remain a villainous character. The latter would definitely be interesting and give people an alternative to Loki.

As for Thompson and Souza, they're good cop and bad cop. They have to be separate by necessity. Maybe Thompson could've been combined with Dooley, on the one hand Thompson being a Sacrificial Lion would be an interesting form of redemption, although the latter third of the show would be very different.

edited 11th Oct '15 12:45:01 PM by AlleyOop

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#44437: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:46:54 PM

There's also the question of who would go with Peggy during the Russia mission. Dooley's probably not going to send himself right into the line of fire while "babysitting secretaries"; he's got a dozen other jobs to handle back home. But it has to be someone antagonistic to Peggy to contrast with the Commandos.

edited 11th Oct '15 12:52:07 PM by Tuckerscreator

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#44438: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:48:16 PM

Alright, fair. Maybe combining them wouldn't work. But maybe make one or both of them more bit players?

I dunno, I'm just spitballing here.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#44439: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:51:34 PM

Honestly, what was the point of the Russia mission? It could've turned out that the hypnotist guy was locked up by another department here at home, that the files on the other Black Widows existed somewhere here as well. It would've consumed less of the show's time. Like, you want to know what I would cut in favor of more female characters? There it is.

Let's be honest, literally the only reason to do a big international mission episode was to get the Howling Commandos in, and they could only get one guy from the films, so there's no harm in scrapping it.

Let me ask you a question. Do you want more women in the show to serve the story or your own personal bias? I think the story was told well. I enjoyed it immensely. Quite frankly, I don't see the need for more female characters of high prominence in the show as it was.
Are you saying that you not seeing the need is not, in fact, your own personal bias? Because "the show didn't need more female characters" is, like most statements about works of fiction, not an objective fact.

edited 11th Oct '15 12:52:41 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#44440: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:53:12 PM

I dunno.

I think, yeah, the Howling Commandos cameo was a big part of it. But it was also a nice break at the midpoint of the series, a short change of pace, and I think that worked really well.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#44441: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:53:43 PM

But people liked Dum Dum Dugan.

edited 11th Oct '15 12:54:08 PM by SonOfSharknado

My various fanfics.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#44442: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:54:38 PM

It's sounding now like you want another show altogether. No Howling Commandos in a Captain America followup? No exploration of the post-WWII international climate? Staying in New York the whole time? Just files on the kid Black Widows, not seeing one in action and seeing the Red Room Academy? It's not something much interesting at all.

edited 11th Oct '15 12:56:43 PM by Tuckerscreator

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#44443: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:56:37 PM

Maybe I'm confusing things, but wasn't the rescue mission sort of set up by Fenhoff so he could do a Play-Along Prisoner thing?

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#44444: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:57:38 PM

[up][up]I mean, if you want to call one episode where we don't interact with the Russian general public at all "exploring the international climate", that's kind of a low bar. I could've done with that, sure, but it doesn't seem to be what the show was aiming for.

I'll second it being a nice break from New York but if it's the only thing that's keeping it from being in New York the whole time than, y'know, it not being a very international show is still a fair critique.

There were already no Howling Commandos. Besides Dum-Dum. Don't get me wrong, I like Dum-Dum, but I also didn't see a pressing need for him alone to return.

I'll give you that seeing the other Black Widows was great but it's not something I'd mind losing if it meant more facetime for more female characters. Sometimes you have to sacrifice your darlings.

edited 11th Oct '15 12:58:33 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#44445: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:57:58 PM

[up][up]It was. It was a ploy to get himself to America to find Howard's invention.

edited 11th Oct '15 12:58:28 PM by Tuckerscreator

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#44446: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:58:01 PM

As far as villains go I don't think I'd want Taskmaster. I think he'd work better as a sort of recurring minor antagonist who shows up in a few films across the general MCU but only with Batroc-level importance in each.

I don't think he could really carry a film all by himself given his generally low-level ambitions, not to mention he'd job pretty hard to Ant-Man. He does better against heroes whose "powers" he can actually copy.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#44447: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:03:09 PM

The Howling Commandos episode was a key moment in the series for multiple reasons. For one it created a situation in which Peggy was the most qualified person around, so she could assert herself and insist on going on the mission (which honestly was a much needed triumph after the first episodes). Two, it showed Peggy in her element, demonstrating how well she can work with men who actually respect her, and that she has earned the respect and then some. And Three, it allowed to explore Thompson's character further. That is was a big "take that" to his "nobody will ever accept you" speech was a big bonus.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#44448: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:05:26 PM

All those, and it brought some action back to the show again. Episodes Three and Four didn't have much action. Insist that these weren't "the real Commandos", that's your preference, but that they had Dugan back and leading the unit was enough for me to buy them as the second generation.

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#44449: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:06:26 PM

[up][up]I mean I could've done without the third part, and surely there are ways to accomplish the other two at home? But yeah, no, those are good points. I dunno. Maybe I'm reaching but I really don't think that just because a buncha internet randos can't think of ways to get more female characters in (myself included) doesn't mean a bunch of qualified, experienced television writers couldn't have done better.

[up]There was like no effort to develop the second generation, though. If they tried to establish these guys as their own characters maybe I would've bought it but they clearly decided that if they couldn't get the movie guys they'd just make some cannon fodder.

edited 11th Oct '15 1:07:51 PM by Wackd

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44450: Oct 11th 2015 at 1:08:42 PM

All I can comment on since I've never seen Agent Carter is that not having every actor from the First Avenger back is really lame.


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