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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#44401: Oct 11th 2015 at 9:58:09 AM

Unless you think that every single scene in the show was absolutely needed, then there was definitely a way to put more female characters in it. The show was good, but it wasn't perfect.

I just find it strange that when we point out something that's wrong with the show, the almost immediate reaction is, "No! There's nothing wrong with the show! It's absolutely perfect and shouldn't be changed!" Despite the fact that it has very few female characters and even fewer minority characters.

edited 11th Oct '15 9:59:43 AM by alliterator

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#44402: Oct 11th 2015 at 10:01:08 AM

Worth noting is that the third episode was going to be a Girl's Night Out Episode with Peggy's neighbors until the writers decided that Peggy wouldn't take that much time off when there's a friend's arrest on the line. Also that Angie was going to be in more scenes but her contract wouldn't allow it.

I don't think the show is perfect but I think it put in all the effort it reasonably could under its contracts and premise.

edited 11th Oct '15 10:02:29 AM by Tuckerscreator

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#44403: Oct 11th 2015 at 10:07:32 AM

[up][up]Just because I don't consider this a problem doesn't mean I think that the show is perfect. But it is frustrating that some people expect the show to be a "Eierlegende Wollmilchsau" (Egglaying Wollmilkpig) and be everything at once. If someone points out to me "that's a point at which the storytelling didn't work because", it's different. But I have little patience for "yeah, the show didn't push this or that social issue enough". Because I think it did really, really well in tackling a difficult theme. It is frustrating that this show gets so much flak for focussing on the story it wanted to tell instead. Especially when I hear suggestions like "Jarvis should be female". The relationship between him and Peggy is the best part of the show, partly because he is male.

[up]I also think that the third episode would have been too early for something like that. Peggy barely moved from "I should keep everyone at arms length" at this point.

edited 11th Oct '15 10:09:13 AM by Swanpride

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#44404: Oct 11th 2015 at 10:16:01 AM

It is frustrating that this show gets so much flak for focussing on the story it wanted to tell instead.

The show can tell the story it wants to tell and still include more female and minority characters. It's not a "one or the other" thing - you can do both.

"Eierlegende Wollmilchsau" (Egglaying Wollmilkpig)

I'm going to use this expression from now on, because it's awesome. But it also wasn't what I was asking - I wasn't asking that the show address more themes, I was just saying that it should include more female and minority characters. There are already a ton of characters that it doesn't use and it can - heck, that "Girls Night Out" episode? They could have totally moved that to when Peggy thought the case was over and it would have been fine.

I don't think the show is perfect but I think it put in all the effort it reasonably could under its contracts and premise.

I don't think it did. I think it was really good, but it could have been better.

edited 11th Oct '15 10:16:44 AM by alliterator

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#44405: Oct 11th 2015 at 10:22:30 AM

I honestly don't see where...they could have inserted more diversity by picking a poc for Angie, but otherwise, the narrative is pretty tight.

lackofsense Since: Jan, 2013
#44406: Oct 11th 2015 at 11:28:56 AM

Let me ask you a question. Do you want more women in the show to serve the story or your own personal bias? I think the story was told well. I enjoyed it immensely. Quite frankly, I don't see the need for more female characters of high prominence in the show as it was.

Do you want an Agent Carter show or something completely different? Because that is what you are repeatedly asking for. I'm all for more women in more varied roles, but this show actually made a good balance in regards to gender importance as well as taking shots at the society of the time.

Not everyone is fighting the same war you are.

I could go for another show featuring that spy group Dottie is from. Plus season 2 of Agent Carter is coming.

higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#44407: Oct 11th 2015 at 11:39:42 AM

Now that we know that Ant-Man and the Wasp will be a movie, who should the villain be?

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#44409: Oct 11th 2015 at 11:43:41 AM

Are there any villains associated with the Microverse? I'm guessing a bit part of the movie will be their attempts to rescue Janet.

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#44410: Oct 11th 2015 at 11:43:50 AM

Radioactive Man, Black Knight, or a villainous version of Eric O'Grady.

Taskmaster would probably be my first pick, but I think his rights might be tied into Deadpool's.

edited 11th Oct '15 11:44:51 AM by BadWolf21

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#44411: Oct 11th 2015 at 11:45:34 AM

Egghead, maybe.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#44412: Oct 11th 2015 at 11:57:33 AM

Egghead make it happen. well scott doesn't really have a rogue gallery list. he shares bad guys that are associated with many different heroes. its the cross family that stands out as his arch nemesis. Perla is the princesss of the Mirco Verse. Hank's villains are guys like Egghead and Scarlet Beetle.

edited 11th Oct '15 12:04:43 PM by xbimpy

FoxBoxKid Philosophy Enthusiast from California Republic Since: Oct, 2013
Philosophy Enthusiast
#44413: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:02:37 PM

Whirlwind is an Ant-Man villain, but he's also a jabroni, so he can't really be the main villain.

Make mine Marvel.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#44414: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:03:00 PM

Since it's almost definitely going to be about saving Jan, the threat could be internal rather than an external villain, I don't know. Civil War is already touching on it a little, although it still seems to be going traditional with Baron Zemo.

edited 11th Oct '15 12:06:09 PM by AlleyOop

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44415: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:03:54 PM

A Marvel Cinematic Universe film with No Antagonist sounds interesting to me.

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#44416: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:06:07 PM

The real villains in the MCU have always been each hero's own self. They have a harder time struggling against their vices than punching evil things. An external villain is always required for the superhero genre

edited 11th Oct '15 12:07:30 PM by xbimpy

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#44417: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:06:53 PM

It sounds the opposite of interesting to me.

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#44418: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:08:03 PM

Jessica Jones being "darker than Daredevil" scares me. But I'm still holding out hope that Jessica herself will be less boring than Matt, and that'll be enough to sell me.

Re: Agent Carter: I've been thinking about it, and was it really necessary for both Sousa and Thompson to have roles as large as they did? If the whole point is that Peggy's work life sucks, Sousa is kinda counter to that for most of the show. And the dirdctor guy whose name I forget already filled the "shitty dude who has zero respect for Peggy" role that Thompson did.

You could probably mash them into some kinda... amalgamation and not lose much. And also increase the ratio of major women to men as a result.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44419: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:08:27 PM

[up][up]Why? I think it's at least worth a shot.

edited 11th Oct '15 12:08:46 PM by VeryMelon

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#44420: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:14:56 PM

My pitch for Ant-man and the Wasp goes like this: After Scott's contacts told him about a number of incidents which points into the direction of someone using Pym particles, he and Hope are trying to spring a trap on the person in question. But they get evaded, as if the person knew they were coming, and the incidence become more and more violent. On top of this, the police suspects Scott, whose only alibi-witness is his daughter Cassie.

Eventually they figure out that the culprit is actually Hank Pym, who believes that he has found a way to rescue Janet from the microverse - as gets more and more crazy and obsessive, leading to a fight between him, Scott and Hope. He is taken out, but now Hope can't let off the idea herself. Against Scott's wishes, who naturally wants to protect her, she goes into the microverse and in a gripping finale she manages to rescue her mother who hasn't aged one day, meaning she is now younger than her own daughter. And has the personality of EMH Wasp.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#44421: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:16:06 PM

That's a billion dollar idea.

My various fanfics.
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#44422: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:16:30 PM

[up][up][up][up]one of the selling points of the netflix marvel series is that because they aren't films they can afford to go places the movies would not go, which does include the darker subject matter in daredevil.

it's fine if one doesn't like it since that's personal taste, but i think that kind of tonal diversity is important for marvel to cultivate, especially since a lot of people enjoyed daredevil BECAUSE it was a darker show with more adult themes.

edited 11th Oct '15 12:17:10 PM by wehrmacht

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#44423: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:16:55 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]I think both characters are important. Thompson presents the obvious sexist, and Souse the well-meaning one.

One review noted that the first episode of Jessica Jones is more layered than the whole season of Daredevil. Sound good, if you ask me. (Plus, I really liked the dry humour in the teasers, a far cry from the overly serious tone of the Daredevil one).

edited 11th Oct '15 12:17:12 PM by Swanpride

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#44424: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:17:14 PM

[up][up][up][up]How fitting.

edited 11th Oct '15 12:17:49 PM by VeryMelon

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#44425: Oct 11th 2015 at 12:25:29 PM

Melon: It just doesn't. A superhero movie without a villain doesn't sound like something I want to see.


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