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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#43527: Sep 28th 2015 at 5:41:15 PM

Gray-and-Grey Morality. To me, Iron Man had genuinely understandable motives for his actions, and while Cap's point of view is understandable as well, he did reject an attempt at negociation. If anything, I felt Mariah Hill was the real Jerkass on the pro-registration side, while Iron Man was just trying to make the best out of a bad situation.

Now I did heard the tie-in had more moments of Iron Man acting like a Designated Hero, but in the main book, I felt like there was some logic to his reasoning.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#43528: Sep 28th 2015 at 6:05:49 PM

[up]You do know that Ironman was photoshopped with a Hitler mustache, don't you? I'm pretty sure there were some fairly good reasons for that...

edited 28th Sep '15 6:06:18 PM by kkhohoho

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#43529: Sep 28th 2015 at 7:25:48 PM

The main series didn't really have Iron Man doing anything that terrible, though. It was only in the side mini-series where he was shown to do stuff like create secret prisons in the Negative Zone and set up a war with Atlantis in order to unite the superheroes, if I recall correctly.

edited 28th Sep '15 7:26:04 PM by alliterator

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#43530: Sep 28th 2015 at 7:28:08 PM

Prison 42 was in the main series.

But yes, Iron Man wasn't as bad as people claimed then or now.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#43531: Sep 28th 2015 at 7:30:06 PM

It was? Huh.

I never really understood why he would create a prison in the Negative Zone anyway. I mean, creatures live there. I know the usual Raft prison has been broken out of tons of times, but didn't Hank Pym also create the Big House which just shrunk villains down? Wouldn't that be a more humane(ish) solution?

Of course, Hank Pym was actually a Skrull at the time, so that might have been worse.

edited 28th Sep '15 7:30:37 PM by alliterator

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#43532: Sep 28th 2015 at 7:40:08 PM

Thor seemed to think creating a clone of his that killed Bill Foster was pretty bad.

JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#43533: Sep 28th 2015 at 8:25:18 PM

Didn't he recruit villains in the main series. Not as a Suicide Squad, where they'd take on impossible missions in exchange for clemency, but more as a death squad?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#43534: Sep 28th 2015 at 8:31:06 PM

That wasn't in the main series, that was in the side series Thunderbolts. And Thunderbolts was actually pretty awesome, even if "Tony Stark lets Norman Osborn be in charge and also Bullseye" was pretty stupid. The thing is, they weren't a death squad, they were actually supposed to bring in unregistered superheroes alive, but, you know, Osborn and Bullseye.

But anyway, the series was pretty great when Warren Ellis was writing it and it did feature a scene where Osborn goes more and more crazy when undressing and then putting on his Goblin outfit. "Note to self: take more naked dictation. The ideas seem to flow more freely."

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#43535: Sep 28th 2015 at 8:50:00 PM

I'm pretty sure I remember recruited supervillains showing up in the main series. They chased Spider-Man who was saved by the Punisher.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#43536: Sep 28th 2015 at 8:58:55 PM

They did show up in the main series, but they didn't really do anything besides be there and look intimidating. A couple of them might have beaten up Spider-Man, I think.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#43537: Sep 28th 2015 at 10:05:17 PM

They gave Spider-Man a No-Holds-Barred Beatdown but yeah they didn't kill anyone in the main series. The main objection is that Tony Stark let complete psychos like Bullseye and Lady Deathstrike work for him at all.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#43538: Sep 28th 2015 at 11:26:33 PM

Honestly...it doesn't matter. The concept of Civil war is really great, especially since comic books tend to verge towards a black and white morality, with the exception of a view characters which are deliberately grey, but tend to be portrayed as being in the right, too. Chris Evans already said that in the upcoming movie, the position of both sides is understandable (which is actually true for most wars). And the writers working on it are maybe the best in the MCU.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#43539: Sep 28th 2015 at 11:56:53 PM

Yeah guys, none of actual bad things about Civil War are being adapted.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#43540: Sep 28th 2015 at 11:59:38 PM

One thing I do hope is that this has lasting if not maybe even permanent effects on the MCU.

Even besides all the inconsistent portrayals and puppy-kicking and all that, one of the main things that bugged me about Civil War was how slowly but surely most of its events - if not swept under the rug - at least were edged back into the Status Quo. It's like most Crisis Crossovers these days, sure, but given what many of those involved on both sides did, I found it hard to believe that so many of those guys could ever really trust each other again.

Work together for the common good, sure. But actually come to have the same close camaraderie again? Even a lot of the day to day ways the two sides treated each other, not even the really bad stuff, makes it hard to swallow that ultimately the community would be more or less back to normal.

At least this time there isn't a Goliath to die as a direct result of one side unleashing a superweapon on the other side. That one in particular bugged me.

edited 29th Sep '15 12:02:33 AM by KnownUnknown

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#43541: Sep 29th 2015 at 12:01:40 AM

I still think/hope that Civil war will be the Status Quo for season 3.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#43542: Sep 29th 2015 at 12:05:32 AM

True. It's probably not something I need to be worried about - even if they do still tend to try and wrap up the individual plots of stories as neatly as possible, the MCU is typically pretty pointed about having aftereffects of things that should have serious effects on the world at large still be relevant long after their plots, and not just go away after the next movie.

The HYDRA's reveal continued to adversely affect SHIELD long after their defeat, and SHIELD dissolving and being hunted by the law didn't go away just because the good guys took control of the organization again and the new Director is The Hero for example. Thor didn't just save a town in New Mexico, his appearance was major first contact and influenced the course of the universe from that point on. Loki's invasion is still considered to be the turning point in the world's history in-universe. Etc.

edited 29th Sep '15 12:06:54 AM by KnownUnknown

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#43543: Sep 29th 2015 at 12:13:55 AM

so far the most impactful events have been The Battle of New York, the Fall of Shield and the Battle of Sokovia.

HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#43544: Sep 29th 2015 at 2:22:34 AM

@ Very Melon

Yeah guys, none of actual bad things about Civil War are being adapted.

And that includes Happy dying?

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#43545: Sep 29th 2015 at 2:33:41 AM

I admit...I still keep waiting for them killing off War machine. Honestly, if there is any avenger who is expendable it is him.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#43546: Sep 29th 2015 at 2:44:34 AM

"You do know that Ironman was photoshopped with a Hitler mustache, don't you? I'm pretty sure there were some fairly good reasons for that..."

And I always assumed that reason was Fan Dumb (no offense to anyone who dislike Civil War intended). Now, again it's possible that there is some basis behind, but personally I didn't feel that when I read the book. Different opinions, I guess.

Now, Avengers vs. X-Men, that I will agree had a lot of the problems I hear people blame on Civil War. But Civil War itself? Could have been better handled, but I still feel like it was a worthy installment in Marvel. And it's fine if people disagree with me: I understand this isn't for everyone (heck, I personally dislike most of Mark Millar's other works due to how he confuses "realism" and "cynicism").

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#43547: Sep 29th 2015 at 8:02:20 AM

[up][up]killing the black guy? not change in hell.

As far I know the issue with Civil war was the writer itself picking side and star dereling other, so we have zealot cap and futher stark.

"The HYDRA's reveal continued to adversely affect SHIELD long after their defeat, and SHIELD dissolving and being hunted by the law didn't go away just because the good guys took control of the organization again and the new Director is The Hero for example."

Except Hydra was burned down in the next movie with Strucker beind killied that easly just to set Ultron(aka Evil tony#4)

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#43548: Sep 29th 2015 at 8:05:26 AM

[up]It's not like there is only one "black guy". And from a narrative point of view, he makes the most sense. As character he is really, really boring.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#43549: Sep 29th 2015 at 8:07:32 AM

[up][up]Actually HYDRA hasn't been burnt down even at this point. Both Agents of SHIELD and Antman confirmed they are still there, and apparently they will be involved in Civil War.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#43550: Sep 29th 2015 at 8:09:22 AM

If they didn't kill War Machine AOU they're not gonna do it anytime soon.

It's not like there is only one "black guy".

There's a grand total of three non-white superheroes in the MCU. Killing War Machine brings it back down to two. I can't imagine after all the flack they've taken for the lack of diversity that they want to try that right as they're finally heading in the right direction.

And that includes Happy dying?

Happy isn't even in the movie as far as we know.

edited 29th Sep '15 8:11:05 AM by comicwriter


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