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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Gray-and-Grey Morality. To me, Iron Man had genuinely understandable motives for his actions, and while Cap's point of view is understandable as well, he did reject an attempt at negociation. If anything, I felt Mariah Hill was the real Jerkass on the pro-registration side, while Iron Man was just trying to make the best out of a bad situation.
Now I did heard the tie-in had more moments of Iron Man acting like a Designated Hero, but in the main book, I felt like there was some logic to his reasoning.
The main series didn't really have Iron Man doing anything that terrible, though. It was only in the side mini-series where he was shown to do stuff like create secret prisons in the Negative Zone and set up a war with Atlantis in order to unite the superheroes, if I recall correctly.
edited 28th Sep '15 7:26:04 PM by alliterator
Prison 42 was in the main series.
But yes, Iron Man wasn't as bad as people claimed then or now.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.It was? Huh.
I never really understood why he would create a prison in the Negative Zone anyway. I mean, creatures live there. I know the usual Raft prison has been broken out of tons of times, but didn't Hank Pym also create the Big House which just shrunk villains down? Wouldn't that be a more humane(ish) solution?
Of course, Hank Pym was actually a Skrull at the time, so that might have been worse.
edited 28th Sep '15 7:30:37 PM by alliterator
That wasn't in the main series, that was in the side series Thunderbolts. And Thunderbolts was actually pretty awesome, even if "Tony Stark lets Norman Osborn be in charge and also Bullseye" was pretty stupid. The thing is, they weren't a death squad, they were actually supposed to bring in unregistered superheroes alive, but, you know, Osborn and Bullseye.
But anyway, the series was pretty great when Warren Ellis was writing it and it did feature a scene where Osborn goes more and more crazy when undressing and then putting on his Goblin outfit. "Note to self: take more naked dictation. The ideas seem to flow more freely."
They gave Spider-Man a No-Holds-Barred Beatdown but yeah they didn't kill anyone in the main series. The main objection is that Tony Stark let complete psychos like Bullseye and Lady Deathstrike work for him at all.
Honestly...it doesn't matter. The concept of Civil war is really great, especially since comic books tend to verge towards a black and white morality, with the exception of a view characters which are deliberately grey, but tend to be portrayed as being in the right, too. Chris Evans already said that in the upcoming movie, the position of both sides is understandable (which is actually true for most wars). And the writers working on it are maybe the best in the MCU.
One thing I do hope is that this has lasting if not maybe even permanent effects on the MCU.
Even besides all the inconsistent portrayals and puppy-kicking and all that, one of the main things that bugged me about Civil War was how slowly but surely most of its events - if not swept under the rug - at least were edged back into the Status Quo. It's like most Crisis Crossovers these days, sure, but given what many of those involved on both sides did, I found it hard to believe that so many of those guys could ever really trust each other again.
Work together for the common good, sure. But actually come to have the same close camaraderie again? Even a lot of the day to day ways the two sides treated each other, not even the really bad stuff, makes it hard to swallow that ultimately the community would be more or less back to normal.
At least this time there isn't a Goliath to die as a direct result of one side unleashing a superweapon on the other side. That one in particular bugged me.
edited 29th Sep '15 12:02:33 AM by KnownUnknown
True. It's probably not something I need to be worried about - even if they do still tend to try and wrap up the individual plots of stories as neatly as possible, the MCU is typically pretty pointed about having aftereffects of things that should have serious effects on the world at large still be relevant long after their plots, and not just go away after the next movie.
The HYDRA's reveal continued to adversely affect SHIELD long after their defeat, and SHIELD dissolving and being hunted by the law didn't go away just because the good guys took control of the organization again and the new Director is The Hero for example. Thor didn't just save a town in New Mexico, his appearance was major first contact and influenced the course of the universe from that point on. Loki's invasion is still considered to be the turning point in the world's history in-universe. Etc.
edited 29th Sep '15 12:06:54 AM by KnownUnknown
Yeah guys, none of actual bad things about Civil War are being adapted.
And that includes Happy dying?
"You do know that Ironman was photoshopped with a Hitler mustache, don't you? I'm pretty sure there were some fairly good reasons for that..."
And I always assumed that reason was Fan Dumb (no offense to anyone who dislike Civil War intended). Now, again it's possible that there is some basis behind, but personally I didn't feel that when I read the book. Different opinions, I guess.
Now, Avengers vs. X-Men, that I will agree had a lot of the problems I hear people blame on Civil War. But Civil War itself? Could have been better handled, but I still feel like it was a worthy installment in Marvel. And it's fine if people disagree with me: I understand this isn't for everyone (heck, I personally dislike most of Mark Millar's other works due to how he confuses "realism" and "cynicism").
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killing the black guy? not change in hell.
As far I know the issue with Civil war was the writer itself picking side and star dereling other, so we have zealot cap and futher stark.
"The HYDRA's reveal continued to adversely affect SHIELD long after their defeat, and SHIELD dissolving and being hunted by the law didn't go away just because the good guys took control of the organization again and the new Director is The Hero for example."
Except Hydra was burned down in the next movie with Strucker beind killied that easly just to set Ultron(aka Evil tony#4)
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"If they didn't kill War Machine AOU they're not gonna do it anytime soon.
There's a grand total of three non-white superheroes in the MCU. Killing War Machine brings it back down to two. I can't imagine after all the flack they've taken for the lack of diversity that they want to try that right as they're finally heading in the right direction.
Happy isn't even in the movie as far as we know.
edited 29th Sep '15 8:11:05 AM by comicwriter

How did you perceive it?