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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Mukora Uniocular from a place Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Uniocular
#43051: Sep 13th 2015 at 8:31:19 PM

Yeah... racism is pretty alive an well. Most prejudice and bigotry is.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#43052: Sep 13th 2015 at 9:29:54 PM

Of course. I wasn't saying that, I was saying it's become very hard to reconcile "racism" and "utter genius" as most villains are supposed to. Donald Trump is a considered candidate, but he's also a media punchline and really even his supporters wouldn't describe him as a mastermind.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#43053: Sep 13th 2015 at 9:37:45 PM

You could make the argument that Donald Trump is a Straw Hypocrite who's more calculating than people give him credit for. He's a punchline for the media, but his racism is working pretty damn well in terms of riling up the masses and getting publicity. As execrable as he may be, I bet he'd advocate Marxism-Leninism and anarchofeminism if the demographics shifted overnight and he thought it would get him the most notoriety.

edited 13th Sep '15 9:43:30 PM by AlleyOop

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#43054: Sep 13th 2015 at 9:43:37 PM

[up] You are giving Trump way too much credit. This is a man who declared bankruptcy four times.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#43055: Sep 13th 2015 at 9:47:17 PM

There's two primary kinds of racists (Or bigots in general).

Ones who actually believe that crap because they're idiots.

And ones who don't really believe it, but know it can be used to rally the former group behind you like mindless sheep. Hate's a very powerful emotion, and stoking it is a very quick way to gain power.

Trump seems to be somewhere between, since he's good at rallying support but is himself an idiot.

To bring us back to Red Skull and Naziism, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the upper brass of the Nazi party were the latter group, and Red Skull was likely that until dropping the act and declaring HYDRA free from the Nazis. Dr. Zola's tough to get a read on since he comes across as apolitical and only interested in science in the first movie, but then he was a sleeper agent in the second for seemingly no motive except "Hail HYDRA!"

edited 13th Sep '15 9:48:31 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#43056: Sep 13th 2015 at 9:58:52 PM

He could be The Starscream beneath his passive appearance and remaking it in his own ideals.

edited 13th Sep '15 9:59:29 PM by AlleyOop

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#43057: Sep 13th 2015 at 10:05:44 PM

[up]I can imagine being made to fetch Schmitt's car from a burning facility may have soured him somewhat.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#43058: Sep 13th 2015 at 10:06:54 PM

To be honest I dunno if I'd want to escape in Schmidt's idiotic pill-helicopter thing anyway.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#43059: Sep 13th 2015 at 10:56:18 PM

The sad truth is that racism is on the rise, especially due to the number of refugees which currents storm Europe. In most countries the right-leaning parties are getting more and more votes.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#43060: Sep 14th 2015 at 12:22:56 AM

Oh man, I just watched the original Norns scene and it is so much better than the vision-pool we got in the film. I have no idea what the Marvel execs were smoking when they wanted Joss to get rid of it, because it explains so much more and it is much more entertaining than just that stupid vision Thor has.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#43061: Sep 14th 2015 at 12:43:04 AM

Wasn't Joss the one who wanted less of it?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#43062: Sep 14th 2015 at 12:48:42 AM

No, the executives apparently wanted to change the Norn scene so it was just a vision pool and then cut the Hawkeye farm scene. Joss bargained with them until he was able to keep the farm scenes, but had to leave in the vision-pool.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#43063: Sep 14th 2015 at 12:50:55 AM

And then after test screenings Marvel wanted to cut out the vision pool, but the editor said the film didn't make sense anymore without it.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#43064: Sep 14th 2015 at 1:00:21 AM

If only they had just put the Norn scenes back in, it would have worked fine. The vision-pool comes across as a kind of deus ex machina, while the Norns scene actually has an element of danger (Thor explains that the Norns drain life energy and he's going to channel them because he has more life than others) and Chris Hemsworth actually does sound super creepy as the Norns (although that might be the voice modulation).

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#43065: Sep 14th 2015 at 1:08:49 AM

I have to agree with Marvel though, at least partly, but this is something which should have been changed in the script stage of the movie. The whole set-up with Selvig is needlessly complicated and feels very contrived. And honestly, this whole thing would have been easier if they simply had done a scene in which Thor talks to Heimdal about news from the universe, learns about what happened in Xandar and ends up with the right conclusions.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#43066: Sep 14th 2015 at 1:15:31 AM

I kinda disliked the scene for feeling like an ad for Infinity War. Yet weirdly, I feel like I'd be more okay with the movie being more of an ad for Civil War. A bunch of themes that I thought would lead into Civil War's conflict ended up being resolved too easily, and I haven't seen anything from Civ's advertising that suggest it'll examine those from Age of Ultron.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#43067: Sep 14th 2015 at 1:26:52 AM

What I want to know is why Scarlet Witch messing with Thor's head results in him having this vision in the first place.

How does "making you hallucinate your deepest fears" translate to "I CAN SEE THE FYOOCHER!"

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#43068: Sep 14th 2015 at 1:31:28 AM

He didn't see the future, he saw all of his friends in Hel. And then he saw the Mind Stone, I believe, which makes sense considering the Mind Stone was what gave Wanda her powers.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#43069: Sep 14th 2015 at 2:15:56 AM

Thor is an alien. Why shouldn't he react differently?

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#43070: Sep 14th 2015 at 2:29:52 AM

He didn't see the Mindstone during Wandas mind rape. It only happened when he went to the well of sights. That was was the visual translastiin of what the norns verbally said since the creative team said no to norns. Instead he went to the pool of sights so his dream could be exapnded but the infinity stones confused people like some of you because they just randomly appeared in no context

If you watched the norn scene on You Tube like I talked about last week then you would know they can see the future and possess thor, talking through him as seivik questions. The norns hinted quick slivers death and that the I Ss were never Lokis and something real bad will happen soon something super duper bad so embrace despair

No norn = show and no tell without a clear explanation as to why we see iFs. The vIsual ques hint at thors next arc.

Norn= clear yet foreboding exposition that fits perfectly for any Asgurdian on earth or any of the nine realms who seeks out answers. The exposition hints at the next danger

edited 14th Sep '15 3:16:58 AM by xbimpy

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#43071: Sep 14th 2015 at 8:40:57 AM

I think the main reason Nazi elements of Hydra, the Red Skull, etc. tend to get downplayed in adaptations is simply because writers of other media grasp what comic writers do not: it is impossible to take an Evil Nazi seriously in the modern day.

Nazis in storytelling are like zombies: shallow, one-dimensional characters who are evil because, dude, they're Nazis, they don't need a reason to be evli. An acceptable target for mindless hordes of evil that can be slaughtered en masse. This creates a problem because writers tend to want their characters to have depth, and it's difficult to create depth for a Nazi character without first having them go, "LOL, those wacky Nazis, it's a good thing I'm not a one-dimensional quasi-zombie like those assholes, huh?"

The films and TV shows have a pretty decent grasp on that. The comics, on the other hand, continue to try to leech as much mileage as possible from Nazism because they don't expect much more from their villains than to be evil and get punched. This was the biggest problem with the first act of Axis, which consisted entirely of one prolonged fight scene against a Super-Nazi that lasted three issues

Comic writers have a bad habit of mistaking, "He's SOOO EEEEEVIL! Look at how evil he is! You thought you'd seen evil? THIS is evil!" for character depth. As a consequence, it's one of the few mediums where Nazis remain popular to this day.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#43073: Sep 14th 2015 at 9:13:22 AM

[up][up] I was the under the impression that they toned down the Nazi aspect of HYDRA because aren't Nazis still kind of sort of a big deal? And they don't want to remind the Jewish community of very dark, very unspeakable things that I'm not quite sure are ok to talk about, namely the H-word that isn't "hell"?

edited 14th Sep '15 9:13:35 AM by TargetmasterJoe

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#43075: Sep 14th 2015 at 10:06:56 AM

Love the detailing but I with that they wouldn't go quite as dark.


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