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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#42501: Sep 6th 2015 at 11:32:48 AM

It doesn't even need to be like that - in the comics, the Norse gods are both Ancient Astronauts and actual gods. Like Thor said, science and magic are both the same thing to them.

edited 6th Sep '15 11:33:18 AM by alliterator

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#42502: Sep 6th 2015 at 11:34:32 AM

Big K popping up in Spector' head as the Egyptian God of the Moon is what makes Big K. Since you said magic that would lead to the comic counterpar, which exhibits a different type of magical origin that the MCU cannot do by default of never establishing it unless someone rectons; a sentient cosmic born out from Earth's biosphere gives birth to many beings that all later fed on the worships of those who prayed to them. Greek, Japanese, American Idian, Australian, etc gods would stand beside Norse.

This is the most basic version of Marvel l'magical deities in their bone bare state. If this happened then Bast the Panther God would be an actual thing for T'achala to meet. The direct answer to get around All Myths Are True would be cosmic fantasy and horror. Nonhumaniod beings that do not exist on our plane of existence, not just another planet (Thor movies).

I say make Dr. Strange learn about those who dwell in the realms human science and Asgurdian magic do not know how to explain. Big K would just be one of the species living there except he made a connection with people on Earth. These aren't ancient astronauts but really weird entities no one except S Ss understand

edited 6th Sep '15 11:53:11 AM by xbimpy

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#42503: Sep 6th 2015 at 11:38:05 AM

[up] I have no idea what you just wrote and I read it three times. But, as those above stated, that is nothing they need to retcon if they want to introduce other pantheons, including the Greek and the Egyptian pantheons.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#42504: Sep 6th 2015 at 11:53:24 AM

If Skyfather Zeus and/or his relatives are Ancient Astronauts and did show up on MCU Earth at some point in the ancient history and inspired the Greek myths humankind reads about today, they must've done well to avoid Asgard's notice by strictly keeping to the Mediterranean while the Asgardians hung mostly around Scandinavia. Or maybe they did know about each other but didn't really care about it one way or the other so long as each kept to their "jurisdiction" or something. T

edited 6th Sep '15 11:56:52 AM by nervmeister

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#42505: Sep 6th 2015 at 11:55:16 AM

That seems simple enough. Earth's a pretty big place. They could easily avoid one another.

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#42506: Sep 6th 2015 at 11:57:24 AM

They can't introduced the way Earth 616 handles detities without doing their basic origin, which is the point I have been making. They didn't go all myths are REAL root. That went for Clarks third law. Magic and science are the same and what science can't define yet is just magic. Magic answers the most mysterious questions about the universe.

it's too late now for bringing in every other pantheon as the Cousins of Asguardians. Sounds like a big WTF. Now if celestial were reveled as the creators of not only everyone on all 8 realms but many worlds then that might work. Once all these 'gods' lived on earth before man until they broke and someone mind blocked it from the Norse gods.m meh

edited 6th Sep '15 12:06:50 PM by xbimpy

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#42507: Sep 6th 2015 at 11:59:26 AM

How does that preclude also doing All Myths Are True? It just means gods aren't really gods.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#42508: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:03:31 PM

[up]Deities, demons, and angels in MCU are likely to be either aliens or interdimensional beings all along. Not too convoluted I think.

edited 6th Sep '15 12:06:33 PM by nervmeister

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#42509: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:08:25 PM

Yea cosmic beings is the most reasonable answer. That's how magic is used here anyway

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#42510: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:08:31 PM

Though it does result in doing th exact sam story over and over with slight differences.

"Hey look, yet another hero from a group of advanced powerful, functionally immortal aliens that came to Earth ages ago and inspired an entire culture, independently of all the others. What a coincidence! Only one more and Earth gets a free space soda!"

Not that making the Greek Gods Asgardians all along isn't a poor idea either.

edited 6th Sep '15 12:10:59 PM by KnownUnknown

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#42511: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:10:07 PM

People keep forgetting there's genuine magic at work several times, like Mjolnir's "whoever is worthy" system is legit magic. There is a precedent for wizardry.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#42512: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:13:05 PM

That's probably because MCU Asgardians magic is super vague and never really developed or anything.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#42513: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:13:57 PM

[up][up]No. It's the hammer's rudimentary AI that scans the would-be wielder's brain for the proper qualities that Odin set as parameters. tongue

edited 6th Sep '15 12:16:49 PM by nervmeister

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#42514: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:14:52 PM

[up][up][up]No, see, when Odin whispered that into Mjolnir, he was actually exhaling Odin Particles into the hammer.

edited 6th Sep '15 12:14:59 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#42515: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:15:06 PM

[up][up][up] Right, as Thor put it, to Asgardians, science and magic are the same thing. Loki can make illusions of himself and everyone calls it magic, too. (And it's not an inherent power - he learned that magic from Frigga.)

So, once again, introducing "gods" into the MCU isn't really a problem. Because, hey, it turns out that perhaps all pantheons are real, not just Norse.

edited 6th Sep '15 12:15:16 PM by alliterator

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#42516: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:16:22 PM

But cosmic beings don't get involved and are much weirder in a lovecaftian sense. They exist on higher plans of exist once than nearly everyone else in the universe

Once again what the inhabitants of those on the 8 realms call magic is just a higher level of science humans have not reached. Meanwhile S Ss fully understand it unlike anyone else. Magic has been hardwaved in Thor movies because if they say we do science that would obviously get people mad. All dr strange has to do is explain it in furthure detail but it's already confirmed they will expand upon something like ant man's quantum realm.

edited 6th Sep '15 12:25:34 PM by xbimpy

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#42517: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:19:18 PM

Given the Greek Gods' personalities and the way they connected (or didn't in a lot of cases) with their people, it might actually be a cool idea to have the Greek Gods be empowered humans (not necessarily Inhumans) rather than aliens.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#42518: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:20:30 PM

[up]Then what does that make the Titans?

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#42519: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:21:57 PM

The previous empowered humans who mentored the ones that ultimately became the gods before being overthrown, maybe. If we give Zeus and co. some hero upgrading, have the Titans be Evil Overlords.

I don't know how the Marvel Comics do the Titans, though.

edited 6th Sep '15 12:23:20 PM by KnownUnknown

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#42520: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:22:39 PM

if you introduce hercules and the greek pantheon maybe reveal that several advanced civilizations carved up earth between them in the past

Also a MCU Hercules story should be like a road trip. Hercules' spring break. Just getting into fights and getting drunk.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#42521: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:23:12 PM

[up][up] Eh, that would be weird to explain though. Like, how did they get their powers? Why do they think they are gods? It's probably better to just go with the "they are actually gods/ancient aliens" routine.

Or go with the Earth-X explanation, where the Celestials tinkered with humanity long ago and created a race of godlike shapeshifters that took on the characteristics of their worshipers, so that they became the spitting image of the Greek Gods, Norse Gods, etc.

Of course, in Earth-X, the Celestials did all that in order to protect Earth, because it was an egg housing a baby Celestial. Which is a completely different kind of weird.

I don't know how the Marvel Comics do the Titans, though.

Marvel does the Titans by saying, "They are the Titans." All Myths Are Real in the Marvel Universe, basically, so you can introduce whatever you want from mythology, plus Celestials and Eternals and Deviants and whatever other godlike aliens.

edited 6th Sep '15 12:24:25 PM by alliterator

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#42522: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:24:22 PM

[up][up][up]Just looked it up. Interestingly enough, Kronos is an Eternal in 616.

edited 6th Sep '15 12:26:06 PM by nervmeister

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#42523: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:25:58 PM

Just looked it up. Kronos is an Eternal in 616.

Completely different Kronos. That Kronos is an Eternal who lived on Titan, one of the moons of Jupiter. Then there's Cronus, who was an actual Titan and was trapped in Tartarus.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#42524: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:28:01 PM

Eh, that would be weird to explain though. Like, how did they get their powers? Why do they think they are gods?

For the first question, we've been discussing how introducing systems of magic and such despite not really focusing on it so far isn't so farfetched.

For the second question, presumably for the same reasons the Asgardians were worshipped as gods: because they had a power above normal humans and inspired people to devote themselves to that power.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#42525: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:29:55 PM

The best solution is, of course, the one posited by Loki in the last issue of Loki: Agent of Asgard: the gods exist because stories were told about them. And through the belief in these stories, the universe itself believed in them, therefore the gods are real.

Or, rather, all explanations are perfectly valid.


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