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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#42476: Sep 5th 2015 at 7:31:58 PM

That's not what was said in the article. It was:

Although he’s an enemy in the comics, don’t look for him to be necessarily a completely villainous character. Rather, he’s an amalgamation of characters culled from Doctor Strange‘s mythology.

Which lends to what someone said upthread about him being less villainous in the film.

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#42477: Sep 5th 2015 at 7:37:57 PM

"Which lends to what someone said upthread about him being less villainous in the film." they already tried to make him sympathetic in the comics via his daughter. that goal was to make him not so pure evil.

so is Chiwetel a supervillain or antagonist cuz if hes the former then hes another Justin Hammer, just a guy who happened to commit a crime. if hes a supervillain then hes gonna do the muwahaha destroy the world or take it over thing. something super duper over top bad. so Mads may be the real evil guy or someone else.

is Chiwetel's casting on the dark side or misunderstood light side. i hope they dont mix too many characters into him or else we wont see them

edited 6th Sep '15 4:50:33 AM by xbimpy

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#42478: Sep 6th 2015 at 12:56:42 AM

I have been thinking about Moon Knight...I think I would like a TV show about him, but only if they adjust his story a little bit. For example, I think the character would be way more interesting if he were more dependable on the moon. Like, he is nearly undefeatable during Full moon, but only a human with fighting abilities during new moon.

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#42479: Sep 6th 2015 at 4:04:49 AM

if they do moonknight then they have to find a way around heliopolitan pantheon. there is no Gaea and Demiurg therefore no acutal detities. thats the diffcult part. marvel took the ancient alien root instead like Earth X. Khonshu is Atum's, aka Ammon Ra, son. logically he would have to go with whatever root dr. strange takes, which if based on ant man would be cosmic entities from dimensions our science can't analyze.

marvel never established a true mythic tale, so the original Khonshu is out the window. they can keep his purpose but how the concept is written... hnmm dk. mix the Ogdoad legend into the concept?

edited 6th Sep '15 4:18:11 AM by xbimpy

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#42480: Sep 6th 2015 at 4:16:10 AM

Moon Knight could always play up the 'magic or mundane?' angle a bit more. Or in MK's case, whether there actually is some sort of god/entity/being that has given him powers or is he just badass but completely apes**t mental as well? They don't even have to provide a conclusive answer if they don't want to. Just have him literally psychotic - the voice in his head IS Khonshu... but that doesn't mean he's not imaginary.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#42481: Sep 6th 2015 at 4:28:58 AM

if you rely on his mental disorder for a badass oh shit hes crazy factor then you have to be very very very careful. it seriously affect the tone and marketability. writing mental ill protagonists take a great deal of work. for example do not forget to diversify them by adding traits beyond how messed up they are. someone dominated by “crazy” is one just a caricature and two not deep enough.

btw moonknight has DID - Dissociative Identity Disorder -. most people think its Schizophrenia but its not.

the purpose of Khonshu is still essential. i agree keep the voice Khonshu himself. it wouldnt be a depiction of his DID but the actual mythical god speaking to his avatar. now just explain why he has this link to what he assumes is an actual god, but it turns out to be something else. moonknight can have the voice in his but like you said "not imaginary". we need that fantastical part

its also worth noting you dont always need to assign mental disorders from the get to become unstable. our brains are too complex for that. but moonknight followed the trend so i guess anyone who adapts has as no choice. the other option would be psychological issues

overall hes a hard character to adapt. just cant take a short hand root

edited 6th Sep '15 7:02:01 AM by xbimpy

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#42482: Sep 6th 2015 at 7:27:23 AM

The mystical god can always be some sort of parasite alien, Stargate style.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#42483: Sep 6th 2015 at 7:28:03 AM

if they do moonknight then they have to find a way around heliopolitan pantheon. there is no Gaea and Demiurg therefore no acutal detities.

Huh? There are the Norse gods and Doctor Strange is going to introduce magic, so I have complete faith that they can totally introduce Khonshu with no problems.

I do think the "magic or mundane?" route would be interesting, considering how unhinged Moon Knight is in the Marvel Universe. That would be a very intriguing angle to go with.

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#42484: Sep 6th 2015 at 7:44:53 AM

So I've thought a little bit more and I came up with what I reckon could be an interesting way for Moon Knight to be introduced to the MCU: have Marc Spector doing his vigilante thing, maybe go a bit too far with the Jack Bauer Interrogation Technique, and get arrested. In steps Murdock and Nelson to try and get him reduced terms based on temporary insanity/diminished reponsibility (he thinks a god is telling him to do this!) but he is absolutely insistent that he's not crazy... he really is hearing the voice of Khonshu.

And of course leaving it wide open as to whether he actually really is the avatar of a god or just schizophrenic Punisher.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#42485: Sep 6th 2015 at 7:52:18 AM

[up]I rather like the idea of keeping it vague. However, if MCU has plans for Moon Knight, maybe they should wait until after Doctor Strange which will probably be the films that sets up the supernatural "powers that be" in the cinematic universe or at least establish whether or not All Myths Are True in some form or another.

edited 6th Sep '15 7:54:01 AM by nervmeister

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#42486: Sep 6th 2015 at 8:19:42 AM

[up]The MCU has currently a full schedule, even if they consider a Moon Knight series, it won't happen within the next two years. Dr. Strange will hit the theatres first for sure.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#42487: Sep 6th 2015 at 9:27:48 AM

Like I said, my problem with the Masters of Evil is this. Assuming the following is true,

  • Is not actually called the Masters of Evil, outside of maybe a snarky reference from the protagonists.
  • Does not feature any membership roster from the comics, instead deriving its own roster from villains who have appeared in the MCU.

I'm left to ask, if we get a supervillain team comprised of no actual members of the Masters of Evil and not called the Masters of Evil, how is that in any way an adaptation of the Masters of Evil? It would have as much in common with the Masters of Evil as Pepper has with Thor.

Even Killian had the good sense to call himself the Mandarin at the end, just in case anyone hadn't quite cottoned onto the fact that he's the villain's adaptation, not Trevor.

edited 6th Sep '15 9:29:21 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#42488: Sep 6th 2015 at 9:51:55 AM

[up]There has been something like 10 incarnations of the Masters of Evil in the comics, most of which have had at least one or two characters that have already appeared in the MCU.

Most importantly, several of them were led by the same Baron Zemo that will be introduced in Civil War. In a hypothetical Infinity War or Phase 4 portrayal of the Masters of Evil, Zemo can be the core of the team and give it tangible connection to it's counterparts in the comics.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#42489: Sep 6th 2015 at 9:52:01 AM

The comics Masters have a rotating roster with lots of different villains joining, so using an exact roster of classic Masters is less important. Earth's Mightiest Heroes even featured a bunch of characters who as far as I know have never even been with the Masters before, like Living Laser and Zola. Likewise, Abomination is typically a Master in adaptations but isn't typically in the comics.

Looking through the various characters that have been on the roster in some form, the MCU has already introduced Absorbing Man and Abomination, will be introducing Klaue and Zemo in the upcoming months. While these characters are officially dead, they never found Whiplash's body (provided they recast him) and they could finagle Zola surviving through Brain Uploading in some way.

Likewise, they would definitely be introducing a member or two in the movie in which they congregate, for the sake of new content.

edited 6th Sep '15 10:19:56 AM by KnownUnknown

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#42490: Sep 6th 2015 at 9:58:25 AM

Moonstone could very well debut in Captain Marvel.

xbimpy Since: Jul, 2015
#42491: Sep 6th 2015 at 10:08:49 AM

"Huh? There are the Norse gods and Doctor Strange is going to introduce magic, so I have complete faith that they can totally introduce Khonshu with no problems."

Norse Gods are not Gods. they are ancient astronauts we mistake for Gods. you never got to see what an actual Marvel God is like because the MCU didnt do it. there is no council of Godheads since other pantheons do not exist. they can introduce Khonshu but the concept would be nothing like the comics without establishing Heliopolitans. as a result he would just follow what Asguardains started or become a sentient cosmic entity existing in a place like the quantum realm. but we already have Kree, Asguardians, and now Celestials portrayed as ancient astronauts. something new would be fresh

edited 6th Sep '15 10:15:30 AM by xbimpy

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#42492: Sep 6th 2015 at 10:18:21 AM

Norse Gods are not Gods. they are Ancient Astronauts we mistake for Gods.

Doesn't matter. Khonshu doesn't have to be a god either — in fact, in Warren Ellis's Moon Knight, he was called an "outerterrestrial entity."

they can introduce Khonshu but the concept would be nothing like the comics without establishing Heliopolitans.

I had no idea about the Heliopolitans until you mentioned it and now that I looked it up on the Marvel Wiki, I have complete confidence that you can completely remove it and nothing about Moon Knight would change. Heck, they don't even appear in any Moon Knight comics - their sole appearances were in Thor.

The only thing necessary for Moon Knight to work is Moon Knight himself, basically.

edited 6th Sep '15 10:19:05 AM by alliterator

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#42493: Sep 6th 2015 at 10:21:17 AM

Moon Knight is basically Batman in a white suit. There's nothing immediately supernatural on a surface level. You could just make him a vigilante and leave it ambiguous as to whether or not Khonshu is real or something in his head.

edited 6th Sep '15 10:21:32 AM by comicwriter

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#42494: Sep 6th 2015 at 10:49:44 AM

MCU Hercules: One of the last still-living vestiges of a older race of "gods" (wiped out by the last Ragnarok) which inhabited the realm known today as Asgard before Bor and his descendants arrived.

MCU Makluans: Ancient dragon-like alien race of shapeshifters that created the Heavenly Cities as outposts. Only a hidden few of their number remain in or near these outposts today (Fin Fang Foom and Shou-Lao to name two).

edited 6th Sep '15 11:04:33 AM by nervmeister

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#42495: Sep 6th 2015 at 11:04:47 AM

MCU Hercules: One of the last still-living vestiges of a older race of "gods" (wiped out by the last Ragnarok) which inhabited the realm known today as Asgard before Bor and his descendants arrived.

Okay, now that's just changing the character so he doesn't resemble anything like his MU version. Unlike Moon Knight, Hercules is steeped in mythology. And he could also easily be the lead in a comedy-action-fantasy (with Amadeus Cho!).

Also, there is no Ragnarok for Greek Gods. That's entirely for Norse mythology.

edited 6th Sep '15 11:05:29 AM by alliterator

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#42496: Sep 6th 2015 at 11:07:59 AM

[up]I think creative liberties for Herc's origin may have to be taken so as not to risk plot holes in the overarching MCU lore. We can still have Amadeus Cho and Thor's friendly rivalry as mainstays though.

edited 6th Sep '15 11:19:36 AM by nervmeister

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#42497: Sep 6th 2015 at 11:25:37 AM

I think creative liberties for Herc's origin may have to be taken so as not to risk plot holes in the overarching MCU lore.

What plot holes could there be if the Greek pantheon was introduced? It doesn't seem like there would be any.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#42498: Sep 6th 2015 at 11:30:31 AM

The Norse pantheon aren't true gods. Adding in the Greek pantheon wouldn't be an issue. They'd just be a different group of Ancient Astronauts.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#42499: Sep 6th 2015 at 11:30:46 AM

I fail to see any plot holes myself. One pantheon turning out to be space aliens doesn't mean all of them are.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#42500: Sep 6th 2015 at 11:31:02 AM

Don't even address it.

Black Widow: Wait, didn't Thor say the gods were actually aliens?

Hercules: Who the hell is Thor?


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