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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#42176: Sep 2nd 2015 at 9:32:22 AM

I was actually expecting a scene where Ultron taking control of Iron Man suit while Tony was inside it. It turns out that it was beyond his capability. Or was it? Eh, doesn't matter now.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#42177: Sep 2nd 2015 at 9:33:07 AM

I think only Ultron's Vibranium body could have been a challenge for them. The rest of the drones were pretty much cannon fodder, like the Chitauri in the first Avengers.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#42178: Sep 2nd 2015 at 9:33:52 AM

The difference between the drones and the Chitauri, though, is that they should be much stronger cannon fodder. Seriously, it's an army of robots. Robots are made of metal. They're more durable and they don't die as easily as organic life.

Instead, Hawkeye's arrows pierce them like flesh and Quicksilver can punch them to death with no ill effects to his fleshy bits.

edited 2nd Sep '15 9:35:24 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#42179: Sep 2nd 2015 at 9:40:02 AM

[up] To be fair, it looked like Quicksilver was just dismantling them, which he could do easily with his superspeed.

Also, there was some ill effects on his fleshy bits considering he died.

edited 2nd Sep '15 9:40:18 AM by alliterator

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#42180: Sep 2nd 2015 at 9:40:43 AM

Is it really going to stick?

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#42181: Sep 2nd 2015 at 9:45:34 AM

We've had Flip-Flop of God before but Feige has said yes, they intend for it to be real.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#42182: Sep 2nd 2015 at 9:48:19 AM

He died from bullets, not from punching. When we see him zipping around, we get shots of Quicksilver shoving his fist through the solid steel of the drones. At his velocities, that should be entirely possible, but the equal and opposite reaction should also have devastating effects on his ability to continue fighting.

I know, I know, physics in a superhero work, but this is grade school physics. You punch a robot, you break your hand.

An army of nearly indestructible robots that can only be defeated if every single drone is destroyed, led by a literally indestructible central unit should not be the underdog in this fight.

edited 2nd Sep '15 9:49:44 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#42183: Sep 2nd 2015 at 9:50:48 AM

When we see him zipping around, we get shots of Quicksilver shoving his fist through the solid steel of the drones.

I don't remember seeing him actually punching the robots though. I remember seeing him go fast (GOTTA GO FAST sorry) and then the robot parts go flying through the air.

An army of nearly indestructible robots that can only be defeated if every single drone is destroyed

But only the central Vibranium Ultron was nearly indestrucible. All the other Ultrons were made from ordinary metal, therefore completely destructible.

edited 2nd Sep '15 9:51:46 AM by alliterator

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#42184: Sep 2nd 2015 at 9:53:35 AM

Completely destructible by the standards of the Hulk, Thor, or Iron Man, but ordinary metal is still really strong for people like Hawkeye, Black Widow, and Quicksilver to be effortlessly ripping apart.

edited 2nd Sep '15 9:54:01 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#42185: Sep 2nd 2015 at 9:58:07 AM

I didn't pay too much attention; I do remember Quicksilver having hyper metabolic rate that gives him instant cardiac failure superseded,but did he have anything that boosts his strength or gives him ddurability?

If he didn't, huh, Tobias is right, Quicksilver should have been taken out of fight purity darn soon.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#42186: Sep 2nd 2015 at 10:00:35 AM

Vison's Ass Pull was by far the most irritating thing about this film. Loki gets to survive a terminal shanking from Kurse (he'll probably survive decapitation next), but Ultron with his digitally distributed consciousness gets "firewalled" by Vision and thus Killed Off for Real

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#42187: Sep 2nd 2015 at 10:03:14 AM

Completely destructible by the standards of the Hulk, Thor, or Iron Man, but ordinary metal is still really strong for people like Hawkeye, Black Widow, and Quicksilver to be effortlessly ripping apart.

We don't see them actually punching the robots, though. We see Hawkeye shooting them with arrows (presumbly really durable arrows) and Black Widow electrocuting them (which would fry their circuits). And again, I don't remember seeing Quicksiclver actually punching any of the robots — he just runs and then we see a spray of robot parts.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#42188: Sep 2nd 2015 at 10:04:52 AM

From what we saw in the movie, it looked like Quicksilver had the kind of superspeed where hitting something at several hundred miles-per-hour does translate into a whole lot of kinetic force.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#42189: Sep 2nd 2015 at 10:05:32 AM

The thing is, during the battle of New York the Avengers looked positively exhausted, especially Natasha and Steve. It was clear that they wouldn't be able to hold the parameter unless they manage to close the wormhole.

In the final battle against Ultron the stakes seem to be lower because there isn't actually much of a doubt that the Avengers will win as long as they stand together...the only question is if they manage to evacuate the people on the rock before they make it explode. Even the biggest blow to them is not something which happens at the height of the battle, it happens when one of Ultron's bodies is flying away in an attempt to save his mind.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#42190: Sep 2nd 2015 at 10:11:03 AM

It's odder in retrospect because Tony's Ultron Program was supposed to make "the Avengers obsolete". Basically the equivalent of a million Iron Men flying around the world as smart as he is. But instead they're no match for any of them.

Speaking of which, if Vision is a Benevolent A.I., would HE be able to take control of the drones and cause the Ultron Protocol to actually work fine and defend the world?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#42191: Sep 2nd 2015 at 10:13:23 AM

[up] I think the point of the movie was that there shouldn't be an Ultron program. An individual AI who wants to do good is fine, but an army of robots dedicated to protecting the world has too much of a chance of things going horribly wrong.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#42192: Sep 2nd 2015 at 10:14:51 AM

The movie doesn't really address this point beyond two of Tony's and Cap conversations, though. We don't get any indication that Vision commanding the drones would result in anything bad. Nor that Ultron was any better as just a singular bot.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#42193: Sep 2nd 2015 at 10:23:23 AM

Well I guess it depends. You're correct in saying the premise behind the Iron Legion program falls apart when you see that a whole army of them got wiped out by 10 people, but of those 10, one was a literal god, two of them were in billion dollar suits of robotic battle armor that nobody else on the planet possesses, one was an android made of indestructible metal and powered by one of the most powerful artifacts in the universe, and four of them straight up had superhuman abilities.

They were no match for the Avengers but could still be very useful in dealing with threats like criminals and terrorists, or even just rescue work and disaster relief.

edited 2nd Sep '15 10:23:39 AM by comicwriter

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#42194: Sep 2nd 2015 at 10:28:26 AM

The thing is, during the battle of New York the Avengers looked positively exhausted, especially Natasha and Steve. It was clear that they wouldn't be able to hold the parameter unless they manage to close the wormhole.

In the final battle against Ultron the stakes seem to be lower because there isn't actually much of a doubt that the Avengers will win as long as they stand together...the only question is if they manage to evacuate the people on the rock before they make it explode. Even the biggest blow to them is not something which happens at the height of the battle, it happens when one of Ultron's bodies is flying away in an attempt to save his mind.

This is exactly where the complaints about the lack of stakes in the climax come from. It's hard to feel like Ultron's inevitable defeat was never in question; instead, the challenge was whether the Avengers can overpower Ultron hard enough. Victory was certain; all that was left to determine was the extent of the casualties.

Regarding the Ultron Program

For all the talk about how Tony was supposed to learn a lesson in hubris, Tony ultimately wins the argument about whether creating Ultron is a good thing. The negative effects of building Ultron are undermined by Tony and Bruce's insistence that what awakened was not what they were building. Tony then proceeds to take a mulligan on it with Vision, which works out great and is wonderful. Thor outright says the words, "Stark is right," and Cap gives him a "Well done," after Vision reveals himself.

edited 2nd Sep '15 10:29:51 AM by TobiasDrake

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HextarVigar That guy from The Big House Since: Feb, 2015
That guy
#42195: Sep 2nd 2015 at 10:31:28 AM

Am I a bad person that my first thought when Quicksilver died was "well, at least it wasn't someone important."?

Your momma's so dumb she thinks oral sex means talking dirty.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#42196: Sep 2nd 2015 at 10:34:10 AM

In the comics, Quicksilver does explitictly have a thing where he can boost his hitting power by going fast.

Since this never shatter his hand, it apparently protects him too somehow.

Comics, shrug.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#42197: Sep 2nd 2015 at 10:34:14 AM

My first thought was "Oh no, he's dead. Like Phil Coulson."

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#42198: Sep 2nd 2015 at 10:34:46 AM

I don't think Pietro's going to get a TV show out of it.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#42199: Sep 2nd 2015 at 10:35:43 AM

And I don't think his death will stick either.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.

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