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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Victin Since: Dec, 2011
#42126: Sep 1st 2015 at 4:49:02 PM

After seeing so many cold A.I.s I didn't understand Ultron's behavior at all until I realized "wait... this is supposed to be an human-like AI!"

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#42127: Sep 1st 2015 at 4:52:31 PM

[up][up][up]Maybe it's because he relied on an army of fragile mooks like Loki, that the menace felt spread thin. Not helped by the fact that even Cap's one-on-one fight with Ultron Prime didn't feel all that desperate. I was more afraid for Steve when he fought Bucky.

edited 1st Sep '15 4:53:22 PM by nervmeister

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#42128: Sep 1st 2015 at 4:53:12 PM

That all being said, my dislike of Ultron's humor is merely an extension of my dislike of Whedon's own brand of humor. Ultron is basically Whedon after all.

edited 1st Sep '15 5:00:07 PM by VeryMelon

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#42129: Sep 1st 2015 at 4:59:22 PM

I felt like maybe they overplayed the snarky stuff a bit, but I'm overall okay with how Ultron was represented.

@Guy01: Well, that would be needlessly bitter. And would make them look stupid. Tony's expecting a galactic level threat eventually, no way he wouldn't take this seriously - any bravado he shows would be a facade.

edited 1st Sep '15 5:04:23 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#42130: Sep 1st 2015 at 5:02:39 PM

[up]I was okay with it too......until I saw Ant Man. Ever since then, I felt like Darren Cross was the Ultron we should've gotten performance-wise.

edited 1st Sep '15 5:16:59 PM by nervmeister

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#42131: Sep 1st 2015 at 5:06:05 PM

I liked AOU Ultron just fine.

He was certainly memorable.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#42132: Sep 1st 2015 at 5:08:08 PM

[up][up] Cross is a decent villain, but he only achieves Ultron-like menace while in the suit - and I'm not sure if I could take that for more than a few minutes.

edited 1st Sep '15 5:08:30 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#42134: Sep 1st 2015 at 5:16:07 PM

[up][up]The baby lamb slaughter and bathroom disposal totally could've worked with Ultron. Though for the latter, it would've involved less shrinking and more "fitting a square peg into a round hole"......sucessfully.

[up]Gah! Im such a dummy. My bad.

edited 1st Sep '15 5:17:41 PM by nervmeister

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#42135: Sep 1st 2015 at 5:17:59 PM

People need to consider that in the comics Ultron was a piss baby who kept trying to build wives and kept trying to kill Hank Pym due to oedipal issues.

Also, a version of Ultron matured past hating Pym, renamed himself Mark and started hugging Hank.

Ultron is a fundamentally ridiculous and emotional creature.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#42136: Sep 1st 2015 at 5:26:33 PM

[up]And in the right hands, we would've had an awesome MCU take on Mary Shelley's greatest work. But nope. Instead Whedon settled for snarky Indecision-bot 5000.

edited 1st Sep '15 5:47:37 PM by nervmeister

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#42137: Sep 1st 2015 at 5:27:51 PM

Yep, Ultron being emotional was never the problem I tend to have with him.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#42138: Sep 1st 2015 at 5:52:20 PM

I liked this version of Ultron.

I don't care much for the cold, unfeeling AI villain type. It's more interesting to have an AI villain whose villainy stems from humanlike failings rather than "Beep boop I have calculated that I must exterminate humanity as per directive 7340".

Like with Ultron, he makes claims about being better and more logical than humanity, but the fact that he feels the need to make those claims in the first place combined with his irrational temper shows that he's a very insecure and emotional being. He lashes out in pain, anger, fear, or just plain confusion, then after the fact tries to convince others- and himself -that it was the rational, calculated course of action all along. Pretty much the only time he ever concedes that he acted before thinking was after he lopped Klaue's hand off, and even then he tries to play it down as a light, comical goof rather than the sign of an unstable and dangerous psyche it is.

And then JARVIS-turned-Vision puts the overplayed "logical = evil" trope on its head by being a more calculating, traditional AI yet being a good guy. Vision undoubtedly has some degree of emotion, but instead of having his head up his own ass about it like Ultron, Vision is capable of putting it to the side and thinking rationally once he's settled on a premise (Stopping Ultron and preserving life). No robo-angsting or violent freakouts.

edited 1st Sep '15 5:56:23 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#42139: Sep 1st 2015 at 5:57:46 PM

Whats funny is that in their final conversation even though Vision was born yesterday, Ultron comes off sounding like a sullen teen

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#42140: Sep 1st 2015 at 6:01:20 PM

Not only is it funny but it's also really fitting.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#42141: Sep 1st 2015 at 6:07:22 PM

Was Ultron poking Dr. Cho with the scepter so she could build Vision for him symbolic of conception?

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#42143: Sep 1st 2015 at 6:10:45 PM

Tony seems more like Whedon's self-insert IMO. If not that, then at least Whedon seems to actually like Tony better despite calling Black Widow his favorite character.

[down] Tru dat.

edited 1st Sep '15 6:15:16 PM by AlleyOop

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#42144: Sep 1st 2015 at 6:11:04 PM

Which makes Ultron one by proxy.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#42145: Sep 1st 2015 at 6:15:54 PM

[up][up][up][up]And he didn't even call the next morning.

edited 1st Sep '15 6:16:13 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#42146: Sep 1st 2015 at 6:19:14 PM

[up]And Tony created Ultron after a woman "stuck it to him" mentally. Meanwhile Loki's whoring with the scepter bears no fruit.

edited 1st Sep '15 6:19:39 PM by nervmeister

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#42147: Sep 1st 2015 at 6:25:00 PM

Performance issues. Affects one out of five.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#42148: Sep 1st 2015 at 6:30:51 PM

lol. Seriously, Whedon has a Freud complex. What's next? Thanos controls everyone at once by aiming the scepter in their general direction and stroking it furiously?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#42149: Sep 1st 2015 at 7:14:10 PM

Seriously, Whedon has a Freud complex.

Uh, what? You realize all the people above were just joking, right? I mean, you can see pretty much any symbolism you want in anything, especially phallic symbolism. Also, there's no such thing as a "Freud complex" - there's the Oedipus complex, which Freud coined and which Ultron has (he pretty much had it in the comics since the beginning and even named his "wife" Jocasta).

edited 1st Sep '15 7:14:54 PM by alliterator

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#42150: Sep 1st 2015 at 7:41:37 PM

[up]I don't think that's what they mean. I think they mean he doesn't believe the "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" idea.


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