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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
" This moment demonstrates how she's risen above the despair and misery, has her head back in the game, and is choosing her responsibilities as an Avenger over her romance with Bruce."
Well I see she does not choose one over the other. Even if he never left she would still stay with the Avengers because there is no where else for her to go. The team is her family and Bruce is someone she greatly connects to, being reminded he represents the life she never had. Being a superhero is a necessary need. Wanting a new life alongside that job isn't a horrible idea as Clint demonstrated.
Bruce tried to push away, but no matter what Natasha convinced him everything was alright. Whedon laid the groundwork for something more though if someone picks it up it would intensting to see what happens next.
They make everyone elses relationship seem stable. Clint heads home to his farm, following through on his promise to his wife that he’ll take things a little easier. Steve realizes that he’s become a different guy, and that he’s just not ready to do the settling-down thing. Tony, on the other hand, is intrigued by Clint simple life, while Thor is comfortable with Jane doing her Nobel-Prize winning awesomeness.
Natasha X Bruce isn’t necessarily going to be something that will be tied up in the next film. Or the one after that. Where Age of Ultron ended, she is not in a particularly bad place. The possibility of having a new life was just taken from her by Bruce leaving. That was his choice and in response she asked kindly to stay. She gives no reason to angst over it... it doesn't turn into full blown drama where she quits because "I NEED YOU BRUCE. COME BACK!!!" That would create the first soap opera for the MCU lol. Instead she moves on rather than contemplating over it. Being a superhero is a fundamental part of her existence because both Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron presented it as a need. Without the Avengers she has no way to do what's right. However, when people start questioning their right to be heroes where will she stand?
Age of Ultron answered one question. What does she want? She has learned what she wants, she understand she can't have it, and is now trying to navigate her own life as an Avenger. Like the adult she is she lets Bruce come to her rather than her after him. In contrast to Steve, he can't stop searching for Bucky, and Fitz can't stop searching for Simmons. Although Steve moves on the moment his past appears he stubbornly chases it down so he can reclaim something lost, while Fitz, at the rejection of SHIELD, won't stop claiming the opportunity to be with Simmons. They have every right to look, but it became an obsession that is putting them and others at risk.
Natasha's choice is the exact opposite. She wanted to see if she could have something for herself, being presented as the pursuer. To have her own life devoid of everything she is reminded of by Russia. She didn't get it. Anyway I'm pretty sure if Bruce sent a postcard it would be her happiest moment since Age Of Ultron. Why would she stop caring about him just because he left? His importance to her doesn't diminish at the role of being an Avenger. Giving him a hug in a "your back scene!" would be heartwhelmingly honest. But that is all up to the next director. When Bruce appears again for Civil War I want to see where Russos take his relationship with Natasha
Now she has the Avengers, but the two characters I pointed out only care about the life they can have. Plus for plot purposes it would be chaotic for her to leave the Avengers.
edited 27th Aug '15 10:09:48 AM by xbimpy
Granted, he did this by completely ignoring the implications of one half of that couple having been previously attracted to dudes, and I dunno that he's improved a lot since then, so we maybe don't want Whedon writing that sort of thing anyway.
The fact that he did it all pretty much proves he's not a Heteronormative Crusader, even if he did it poorly. (And there are gay people who were previously attracted to the opposite sex before realizing they were gay, you know that, right?)
Even if this has been the intention, it was still badly written. The flirting scene at the bar was all kinds of awful. Two tropes I particularly hate is the best buddy who says "go for it" and the random female who immediately remarks that there is something going on between two people.
In addition outside of the scenes in which they were supposed to act all in love, there was no interaction between them. Natasha goes missing and instead of Bruce hovering over Clint's shoulder and acting in any way concerned, he is off tinkering with tony.
Nope, the only reason for the relationship was that Whedon could do the scene with Natasha pushing Bruce. Which, yeah, was dramatic. But it lacked the impact it would have had if I had even cared about the relationship. If there is anything I would have cut from Age of Ultron in favour for more about the twins or even more of Thor in the cave, it would be that nonsense (and the random inclusion of Selvig). Especially since it distracted from a more important issue: That Bruce created a monster by making a test on himself and now created yet another monster by listening to Tony and is STILL ready to help him a third time. That's where the focus of Bruce's storyline should have been. Black Widow would have been way better utilized by letting her talk to Laura and later Scarlett Witch. Not by sitting around in a cage so that the guy who is by the admission of the movie peaceful and a non-combatant turning up to rescue her.
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Yeah, I know. Sexuality is fluid.
But at the same time, y'know, there are other orientations that are under-served by mass media, and it's not like no one knew what bisexuality was in the 90s. To not even bring up the possibility...
edited 27th Aug '15 9:46:51 AM by Wackd
Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.Does Marvel seriously expect us to believe that Natasha is on Tony's side, when a part of her character since the last two movies has been being a close friend and confidant to Cap? What the hell??? Why would she be on the side of Tony "I'm this close to acting like a fascist" Stark?
edited 27th Aug '15 9:59:39 AM by higherbrainpattern
Couple of thoughts:
I don't really take as canon the idea that Bruce Can't Have Sex, Ever because of the risk of hulking out. It just doesn't make sense because if that was the case, then anything that raised his blood pressure would set him off- which is obviously not the case. It also seems iffy because the whole psychological aspect of the power is about it kicking in when Bruce feels anger/pain/fear. Those aren't things that (hopefully) describe sex.
I don't really have an issue with Betty's absence from the MCU. I do raise an eyebrow though at the handwave in both Avengers films for the absence of Jane and/or Pepper. Not because I think it points to something problematic with Whedon, but because it's really obvious, especially with the attempt to compensate by having the characters talk about how awesome their girlfriends are.
I think both the above and the relative absence of Bucky is because the Avengers movies are sort of stand alone (or perhaps the individual hero moves are stand alone?)- It's like they try to acknowledge developments from the other films but can be somewhat Broad Strokes about it due to the ensemble cast.
I don't have a problem with Bucky not being in Cap's vision. One reason for that might be that since Cap knows Bucky is the Winter Soldier, he's not going to include him in a fantasy of a peaceful Post-War life.
One thing I would say though is that Joss Whedon/the Avengers movies are all about Tony and so I don't really expect the best depiction of Cap in them (although I thought it was good overall in AOU). I'm glad that the Russos are behind Civil War and not Whedon, as maybe it will allow Tony to be shown as wrong for once.
Or to put it another way, I think if Whedon was doing it, it would be about Tony and his heroes fighting against Hero Antagonist Cap and his vigilantes. My hope is that its the opposite- it's more from the perspective of Cap and co. and Tony is the Hero Antagonist. I mean as much discussed, neither should be a bad guy and both sides should have a good point, but the story is very different depending on who is the focus character.
edited 27th Aug '15 9:57:41 AM by Hodor2
But at the same time, y'know, there are other orientations that are under-served by mass media, and it's not like no one knew what bisexuality was in the 90s. To not even bring up the possibility...
The problem then becomes that if Joss had Willow go back to being with a man after Tara died, he would have been accused of trying to erase her previous relationship. If he had her refer to herself as bisexual, Joss would then have been accused to being too scared to make her actually gay. It would have been a no-win situation where he would have been accused to handling it poorly no matter what he would have done.
Of course, there was one solution which they never used: introduce another character who was bisexual. They eventually did this in the comic book (where Buffy herself has a relationship with another woman), but never in the show.
Not to get into that side of things, but my understanding is that people into that kind of stuff have endorphins going off, which minimizes pain.
Amusingly, I read an article recently about how basically the same process is why people like Siratcha- it's like the body reacts to the pain from the spiciness by producing endorphins.
Point being though, if his brain is producing endorphins, he's not going to be Hulking Out.
It's like if Bruce doesn't Hulk Out when jogging or eating spicy food, there's no reason he should Hulk Out during sex (even if he's into kinky stuff).
Hulking Out is like a weaponized Fight or Flight Response
.
edited 27th Aug '15 10:06:33 AM by Hodor2
I mean, the easy solution there is just to have someone ask Willow if she's bi, or have Willow bring up the possibility. "I used to like men, but I don't think I do anymore" is a hell of a lot more interesting than just pretending the previous relationship never happened.
"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am.""I used to like men, but I don't think I do anymore" is a hell of a lot more interesting than just pretending the previous relationship never happened.
But nobody pretended the previous relationship never happened. Hell, Oz came back after Willow and Tara had started their relationship (only for one episode, but still). They just had her say that she was "gay now."
I want a thing where Bruce goes to Tijuana Flats and hulks out over overly spicy food now.
Forever liveblogging the AvengersEven just not doing any of the following:
- Willow repeatedly identifying as "gay".
- Willow using "Gay now!" to refute any possibility that she's still attracted to Xander.
- Willow, under the influence of a love spell, plotting to transform the target into a woman because his male gender is irreconcilable with her homosexuality.
would have helped avoid bi erasure.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Because if Widow thinks Cap is in the wrong on this one, she's not the sort of person who'll put supporting a friend over doing her duty?
Does Marvel seriously expect us to believe that Natasha is on Tony's side, when a part of her character since the last two movies has been being a close friend and confidant to Cap? What the hell???"
Natasha's inclination is always to put her obligation to get a task done before anything else. Steve makes that difficult by being a bit self centered with his Bucky obsession. By siding with Pro Regs she automatically says being deployed by and within boundires of the govemrent is better than on her own. Or she fulfills the rumor of a spy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pua9Ef08Yx8
"you won't put any of us in a prision" Why? "Because we are the best ones qualifed to defend it". and no government agency since then had the balls to do anything until Civil War. this new movie's response is to make very good use of superheros by making sure they defend earth responsibly. Esstionally it is a direct answer to Natasha's last line in Civil War just like Iron Man 3 was a direct answer to "take away the suit, what are you? and it wasn't a joke.
The Avengers are a family. They won't all get along sometimes. Steve's virtues attitude may annoy Natasha a bit. All she wants is redemption much like in her latest comic. The Avengers were the best way to award it. Now they're actions are being considered questionable, so her choice to be with the government the direct answer rather than take orders from Steve
edited 27th Aug '15 10:42:58 AM by xbimpy
She joined S.H.I.E.L.D. so she could do good and atone for her actions in the KGB. She joined the Avengers so she could do good and atone for her actions at S.H.I.E.L.D. She's a joiner, she hates herself, she has no faith in her own judgment. Having someone tell her what's the right thing to do is her comfort zone.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I can get that but I'm kind of surprised she'd side with Tony. If she just joins up with people I'd expect her to pick Cap. She's closest to him out of all the Avengers. I'm kind of wondering if her being on Tony's side implies character development.
edit: It also bugs me that Wanda isn't on Cap's team. They're pretty underpowered compared to Tony's side.
edited 27th Aug '15 10:37:35 AM by Kostya
We don't know Wanda isn't on Cap's team or why she's not in the art.
Renner confirms they're legit just in case there was doubt
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How would you all feel about an MCU Howard The Duck movie directed by Michael Bay?
