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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#41751: Aug 26th 2015 at 9:03:12 PM

[up]Would much rather see Loki's daughter show up in Ragnarok.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#41752: Aug 26th 2015 at 9:10:24 PM

Uh, Loki doesn't have a daughter.

Unless you're referring to Hela, but that's a long, complicated story that I don't think they would tell.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#41753: Aug 26th 2015 at 9:18:50 PM

EDIT: No wait, you're right. She was his daughter, not a distant descendant. My bad.

I don't see her showing up in Ragnarok, though, unless Loki has some plot related reason to care about going back to Earth and looking up random family - which is unlikely for a variety of reasons, and Ragnarok is probably going to be much more centered on Asgard than the previous movies.

edited 26th Aug '15 9:25:15 PM by KnownUnknown

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#41754: Aug 26th 2015 at 9:50:58 PM

Wait, he actually does have a daughter? *checks Marvel wiki* Shit, she's only has two appearances. How the hell do you create Loki's daughter and then give her only two appearances? Did everyone forget about her?

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#41755: Aug 26th 2015 at 9:54:07 PM

To be fair, it's established that she's just one of very many human kids and descendants Loki (and presumably the rest of the Asgardians) has, that Loki himself sees her existence as no big deal beyond his kids' safety against other divine threats being an issue (he does remember her name, though, which is sweet), and the only reason she's even involved in the plot is because she was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So she wasn't really introduced as a character with a destiny or anything. Spidey and Loki happen to be Working the Same Case, and Loki eventually reveals that the possessed victim of the Big Bad is related to him. Afterwards they walk into the sunset to fight crime go their separate ways, while she gets a memory wipe and remains an Innocent Bystander. It's very one-shot-y.

edited 26th Aug '15 10:01:13 PM by KnownUnknown

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#41756: Aug 26th 2015 at 10:00:29 PM

Yeah, but it has so much story potential. Loki's daughter!

Huh. I actually found Loki's son, too. He's got lots more appearances than Tess Black. Of course, if you count the Fenris Wolf as Loki's offspring as well, then Loki has grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

Oh god, in the old Venus comics, Loki also had a son...called Son of Satan.

edited 26th Aug '15 10:01:09 PM by alliterator

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#41757: Aug 26th 2015 at 10:48:23 PM

Re: bisexual erasure, prepare for tl;dr and lots of me whining

The gist of it is Bucky is never mentioned or acknowledged by name in AOU, and is completely absent from Cap's Scarlet Witch nightmare sequence, after he seemed really guilty about not going back for Bucky's body in TWS. A lot of fans were so sure that was going to be his greatest regret that when it didn't happen they got... mad. Accused Joss Whedon of shoving his Heteronormative Crusader views down people's throats for including Cap's romance with Peggy but leaving out his "romance" with Bucky. There's a tendency to drag in an unrelated interview where Whedon mentioned Bucky by name as a case of Death Is Cheap as "evidence" he personally hates the character and is maliciously trying to downplay his importance to Cap or erase him from MCU canon, or if they're being nice they'll just settle for saying he didn't get Cap's character in general and committed Canon Defilement.

In short it's your typical shipper delusion with an extra coat of self-righteousness. People are upset their fanon didn't happen so they blame Unfortunate Implications instead of admitting they had unrealistic expectations. Also some half-joking comments mixed in about firebombing Marvel's office if Steve/Bucky isn't canon in the new Planet Hulk mini. While it's totally justified to be angry at the lack of LGBT representation in the movies, it's a red herring in this case being used so people can justify their butthurt. Especially since there's similar behavior from the extreme corners of Clintasha fandom, where Whedon is again a Heteronormative Crusader who fears women more proactive than their male partners, made Laura a housewife because he thinks women should Stay in the Kitchen, or is a misandrist for giving Hawkeye a family instead of getting with Natasha because it implies men need families to be happy or interesting.

It's not unfair to dislike the differences in characterization between the Avengers films and the solo Cap films since they're the work of different writers, or to want Whedon to acknowledge Bucky more. I'm not happy with a lot of AOU's writing and I think he really messed up on Black Widow. And he's had his share of tonedeafness when it comes to feminism (I'm remembering his desire to have Inara gangraped in Firefly). But I'm willing to blame Hanlon's Razor instead of active misogyny for that. Ultimately I'm complaining about a Vocal Minority but for people to act like the extreme cases described in Het Is Ew and get hundreds, sometimes thousands of notes of support, and almost nobody is telling them to Stop Being Stereotypical shippers is a little frustrating.

edited 27th Aug '15 12:00:11 AM by AlleyOop

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#41758: Aug 27th 2015 at 12:08:06 AM

I suppose it would be worth pointing out that Steve did promise Peggy a dance, and their scene together in Winter Soldier is heavily tinged with regrets on both their parts, so it makes sense that she would figure prominently into the flashback. Still, it would have at least been nice if Bucky had been acknowledged in Ao U (that is to say, in the flashback - Sam still references him at the party).

Steve/Bucky is a good pairing, and one I'm fully supportive of, but it's not something that's even been hinted at in the movies, as far as I can tell.

It's funny, though - about ten years ago, maybe even five, the reaction to this pairing would have been "What the fuck, man?!"

edited 27th Aug '15 12:10:13 AM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#41759: Aug 27th 2015 at 12:55:52 AM

I don't think Bucky being at the party would add to its meaning; if anything it would confuse it. The point of the scene is that Steve realizes that he still would have been unhappy without a war had he been able to stay in the 40s. In the following scene at Clint's house and in conversation with Tony at the end he accepts that he's no longer a man of peace. That post-war '46 peace would have been with Peggy but without Bucky; having him there would make it seem more like the expected "sad because of dead-ish friends" scene.

edited 27th Aug '15 12:56:03 AM by Tuckerscreator

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#41760: Aug 27th 2015 at 1:32:35 AM

It could be a two-parter flashback. First is the dance scene with Peggy as it already is. Then it fades into a second scene of Steve staring into an empty snowy ravine while a voice echoes "YOU LET THEM DO THIS TO ME STEVE" if they're going to be Anvilicious about it.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#41761: Aug 27th 2015 at 2:46:22 AM

I think they simply want to leave the whole Bucky issue for Civil War. There was already way too much going on in Age of Ultron anyway.

Plus, while I am not necessarily opposed to Steve/Bucky, so far both characters have been portrayed as being interested in woman. Changing their relationship to another level is something which should be done gradually.

edited 27th Aug '15 2:48:21 AM by Swanpride

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#41762: Aug 27th 2015 at 6:19:39 AM

Uh, Loki doesn't have a daughter.

Unless you're referring to Hela, but that's a long, complicated story that I don't think they would tell.

What's so complicated about Loki sticking his "midgard serpent" into a giantess? (And keep in mind that it's quite physically doable since "giants" in MCU Thor's world are at max the size of Shaquille O' Neil.)

EDIT: Yet ironically, rock trolls are significantly bigger.

edited 27th Aug '15 6:32:44 AM by nervmeister

BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#41763: Aug 27th 2015 at 6:34:53 AM

Silly Yaoi Shipping SJ Ws using bullshit terminology to justify their favorite ship. Don't they know the Steve/Bucky ship is merely shit tier compare to the glorious Steve/Sam ship! Sam is Steve's wingman. The Goose to his Maverick. Why do you think Falcon is in the Avengers in the first place? Certainly that little conversersation he and Cap have is not the equivilant of a typical passive-aggressive conversation most lovers have.

Anyway, (half) joking aside, it is a ridiculous circumstance this "controversy" is developing. I understand slightly with that Unfortunate Implication with Black Widow in the movie (amazing how some fans insists how characters should be portrayed, even though the work is not their vision), but the one where Tony made that one line is going to far (seriously, have those people forgotten who Tony Stark is). If the movie was trying to erase Bucky's existence, then explain to me who this "missing person" Falcon is revering Captain America to and that post credit scene in Ant-Man where they found said person (Bucky)?

edited 27th Aug '15 6:35:13 AM by BigK1337

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#41764: Aug 27th 2015 at 6:40:24 AM

Delusional shippers are thankfully always fun to laugh at.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#41765: Aug 27th 2015 at 6:43:11 AM

Mmmmm hmmm. "Thorsion". Yesssssss. waii

edited 27th Aug '15 6:43:48 AM by nervmeister

BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#41766: Aug 27th 2015 at 6:47:52 AM

[up][up] Yeah, that is true. [lol]

[up] Ew, gross! You're ruining my future "Thang" ship the moment Scott will interact with the God of Thunder in Infinity War! I freaking hate you, man.

edited 27th Aug '15 6:48:30 AM by BigK1337

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#41767: Aug 27th 2015 at 6:50:49 AM

Honestly I think it's sad that this portion of the population is so underserved by mass media that they have to hold out for things like this.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#41768: Aug 27th 2015 at 6:52:23 AM

[up][up]What? You know I'm right. The chemistry is already there. Even Mjolnir itself has deemed that they be together. Game, set, and match, my friend.

edited 27th Aug '15 6:54:40 AM by nervmeister

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#41769: Aug 27th 2015 at 7:11:17 AM

[up][up] That.

Hetero shippers exist too, in all the same flavors as gay and bi shippers. If we seem less deranged about it, it's because more often than not, our tastes are accommodated by the media we consume. Sure, maybe Hawkeye/Widow never became a thing, but Tony/Pepper is still going strong.

Our ships sink with less frequency and we're more likely to get a heterosexual consolation prize. If you're a gay or bisexual fan looking for representation, where do you turn? When the Steve/Bucky rug is pulled out from under you, can you really expect to get a Steve/Sam or Steve/Tony or Tony/Bruce ship out of it? In almost twenty films, how many M/M or F/F Canon Ships have set sail? Whereas even Ant Man felt the need to christen a new M/F ship between two characters with less romantic chemistry than half the "crazy yaoi theories" out there.

I'm also tired of "rabid yaoi/yuri shipper" being a punchline. We sit around and pat each other on the back and reconfirm an implied superiority of the heterosexual orientation by laughing at a people who are just desperate for any sort of media recognition at all.

edited 27th Aug '15 7:13:50 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#41770: Aug 27th 2015 at 7:13:46 AM

Some art: Team Stark Vs. Team Cap.

We seem to be missing one or two characters. If this is real deal, I'm very interested in where Ant Man is standing.

edited 27th Aug '15 7:18:20 AM by edvedd

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#41771: Aug 27th 2015 at 7:18:07 AM

Team Iron Man and Team Captain America members have finally been confirmed!

Team Iron Man: Iron Man, Vision, Black Widow, War Machine, and...Black Panther?!

Team Captain America: Captain America, Bucky Barnes/Winter Soldier, Ant-Man, Hawkeye, The Falcon, and...Sharon Carter?!

EDIT: Gah, [nja]'d again!

edited 27th Aug '15 7:20:27 AM by TargetmasterJoe

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#41772: Aug 27th 2015 at 7:18:43 AM

We seem to be missing some folks though.

edited 27th Aug '15 7:19:08 AM by edvedd

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#41773: Aug 27th 2015 at 7:19:00 AM

Is that Mockingbird in Cap's team photo? Did she get promoted to the movies for Civil War?

edited 27th Aug '15 7:20:03 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#41775: Aug 27th 2015 at 7:20:12 AM

Oh. That makes more sense, but is disappointing.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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