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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#41402: Aug 20th 2015 at 5:36:39 PM

Because Adrianne Palicki and Nick Blood are awesome, that's why.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#41403: Aug 20th 2015 at 5:38:38 PM

Mmmmm nope. AOS is on a lower level of importance, correct, but on the same level of continuity. Continuity just means "this thing happened." It doesn't mean "the movies will acknowledge it happened," it just means that it happened it just means that it happened

Levels of continuity, or levels of canon, is a situation where a universe has multiple installments contribute bring to the mythos at one time, but some installments can override others. Such situations, while there is one continuity, some parts of that continuity have more power over the direction of the universe than others.

In this case, it has nothing to do with "importance" (since a higher level of canon can easily be about events less "important" than lower ones) nor does it require being acknowledged at all (since when different levels of canon clash, the situation is usually subtractive, not additive). Its about relevance to the universe as a whole: ultimately, the universe is created by the higher levels and filled in by the lower levels - in the case of a discrepancy, the higher level has greater say.

The most famous example of this is the old Star Wars continuity, which had several levels (though the new universe ostensibly has none). In the case of the MCU, again, it is AOS' job to write around the continuity created by the films, not vise versa. While the issue with HYDRA is minor and easily dealt with, its still clear the writers of AOS weren't expecting it and the film writers clearly aren't obligated to abide by their plotlines - or at least, they're free to stretch them if its convenient.

edited 20th Aug '15 5:40:25 PM by KnownUnknown

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#41404: Aug 20th 2015 at 5:40:58 PM

[up] Except they explicitly said that the EU of Star Wars was a lower level of continuity. Nobody has said that about Marvel. At all. So what you are saying is pure speculation.

In fact, I believe Jeph Loeb has stated that everything (aside from the tie-in comics) is in continuity.

While the issue with HYDRA is minor and easily dealt with, its still clear the writers of AOS weren't expecting it and the film writers clearly aren't obligated to abide by their plotlines - or at least, they're free to stretch them if its convenient.

Mmm nope, still doesn't make it true. This is like saying any continuity errors in a show "prove" that one episode is not in continuity. The issue with Hydra is easily fixed because there is no issue.

edited 20th Aug '15 5:42:28 PM by alliterator

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#41405: Aug 20th 2015 at 5:42:41 PM

They can say that and I'd appreciate it if they try to keep things straight but ultimately the movies will always take precedence. They're the MCU's most popular medium.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#41406: Aug 20th 2015 at 5:43:08 PM

The movies may take precedence, but they don't contradict anything in the shows at all. And there's nothing indicating that they will.

edited 20th Aug '15 5:43:24 PM by alliterator

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#41407: Aug 20th 2015 at 5:45:51 PM

I haven't paid enough attention to all the little details to know if they did. Even if they do at some point I'm going with the film's version of events unless we're told otherwise.

spashthebandragon thebandragoness from USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
thebandragoness
#41408: Aug 20th 2015 at 5:46:43 PM

I think the MCU tie-in comics ought to be taken as in-continuity unless they contradict something established later. I mean, all they do is elaborate on a few things from the movies (like explaining where Rhodey was during Avengers), so what's the harm in them being canon?

I've got fanfics for Frozen, Spectacular Spider-Man, Crash Bandicoot, and Spyro the Dragon.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#41409: Aug 20th 2015 at 5:56:23 PM

I haven't paid enough attention to all the little details to know if they did. Even if they do at some point I'm going with the film's version of events unless we're told otherwise.

There is no "film's version of events." There is just "the events." AOS may have happened during Winter Soldier, which nothing in either one contradicted the other.

edited 20th Aug '15 5:57:58 PM by alliterator

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#41410: Aug 20th 2015 at 5:58:04 PM

There can't be one version if there's a contradiction. At best you can say one piece of media occurred in Broad Strokes in the context of the other one.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#41411: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:01:12 PM

It's also worth noting that you only compared the bit in Ant-Man to one scene in AOS, not the situation as a whole. To respond to hat, you are right in that it doesn't necessarily have issues that particular scene.

As a last note, only Season 1 of AOS happens during Winter Soldier. Season 2 happens some time later.

In any case, yeah, I think Broad Strokes is the best way to put the relationship here.

edited 20th Aug '15 6:03:14 PM by KnownUnknown

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#41412: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:01:36 PM

There can't be one version if there's a contradiction.

Except there hasn't been any contradictions. Even the Hydra issue isn't an issue at all.

It's also worth noting that you only compared the bit in Ant-Man to one scene in AOS, not the situation as a whole.

Because only that scene indicates what the situation as a whole is. There is no other scene that says, "Whelp, Hydra is decimated, there's no more leaders."

As a last note, only Season 1 of AOS happens during Winter Soldier. Season 2 happens some time later.

I was using Winter Soldier as an example. There were no contradictions with Winter Solder or Age of Ultron or even Ant-Man.

edited 20th Aug '15 6:03:08 PM by alliterator

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#41413: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:02:59 PM

[up]I understand that. I'm saying if there ever is a contradiction.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#41414: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:03:40 PM

[up] Like if there was ever a continuity error in a comic book? Oh boy, how do they ever solve those? (Usually by thinking up a reason for it and then you get a No-Prize.)

edited 20th Aug '15 6:04:06 PM by alliterator

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#41415: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:06:11 PM

[up][up][up] That scene caps and concludes, but does not encapsulate, the entire storyline. The actual events take place over several episodes, during which there's a quite a bit of reference made its fallout and effects.

At the very least, that scene is definitely not the only one that says anything about it.

edited 20th Aug '15 6:07:18 PM by KnownUnknown

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#41416: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:12:15 PM

That scene caps and concludes, but does not encapsulate, the entire storyline. The actual events take place over several episodes, during which there's a quite a bit of reference made its fallout and effects.

Huh? No, the storyline right before that was all about the Inhumans and had nothing to do with Hydra. There was no mention of Hydra or fallout.

But I guess you're referring to "Aftershocks," where Coulson engineered a plan to get the Hydra leadership to kill each other. Except Hydra itself was still around after that, because there was Strucker and List and probably more. It's only after Strucker was killed that we had the scene in "SOS Part 2" where Ward is informed that there aren't many Hydra leaders left.

SHIELD thinking Hydra is out of play doesn't actually mean that Hydra is out of play, as we see when List kidnaps Deathlok and Lincoln.

At the very least, that scene is definitely not the only one that says anything about it.

Please show me which scene, then, explained about the Hydra leadership.

edited 20th Aug '15 6:14:35 PM by alliterator

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#41417: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:18:01 PM

Wasn't the HYDRA guy in Ant Man connected to groups abroad?

The HYDRA taken out by Ao S by all indication has only been the North America branch, who are also now in such a state that Ward is short (but not out) of recruits.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#41418: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:19:47 PM

Yeah, it was stated that he was toppling overseas governments.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#41419: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:39:00 PM

Its going to take me a minute to get exact scenes and quotes: I've been doing all this by phone, and need to get to a TV to do the watching required.

But as a correction at the moment, List worked for Strucker, and Strucker himself was explicitly unaffected by the events that wiped out the rest of HYDRA. Also, the HYDRA agent in Ant-Man is unlikely to be related to that cell as well, given Ultron.

edited 20th Aug '15 6:40:28 PM by KnownUnknown

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#41420: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:43:51 PM

[up] Which means that there was no contradiction.

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#41422: Aug 20th 2015 at 6:48:26 PM

The fact that Ant-Man's HYDRA Agent worked for general HYDRA and not Strucker's specific cell is kind of the point, actually. At least, what with what was originally being talked about.

Are you referring to a different "contradiction?"

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#41424: Aug 20th 2015 at 7:06:16 PM

[up]Mustn't...click...on...link.

Need to...keep it...together.

Mustn't...succumb...to...temptation...

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches

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